After Two Weeks of Pie...

[Since'54]

Thats cool, I guess you wanted us to sit Jones last year too since he was a little rough around the edges.

Did you want to send Markakis back down after he struggled initially in 2006?

The thing that you're failing to understand is that the Cubs never gave the guy steady at bats over two years.

Who's to say that Montanez and Reimold are real hitters too? They've had just as much ML playing time as Pie has, if not less.

It's not that I have an agenda...actually, for the record I don't think Pie will pan out, but at least I'm looking forward to seeing if he can prove me wrong....you're just ready to write him off after a few short stints with the Cubs.

Nope. Never said this. Other posters in this thread have suggested that three months of failure wouldn't be enough to show what his previous team has already decided: Pie can't hit.

Three months will be plenty for me.

[Moose Milligan]

Nope. Never said this. Other posters in this thread have suggested that three months of failure wouldn't be enough to show what his previous team has already decided: Pie can't hit.

Three months will be plenty for me.

What if he's raised his average from .210 to .250 over that time and has shown better plate discipline?

Is three months still enough or do you think he's reached his plateau?

[Since'54]

You dont.

Nope, he's still a prospect.

This part is actually true.

The season hasn't even started yet. We have no idea if this is true (although it should be.)

No, that's completely wrong. It's because a year ago he was one of the top prospects in baseball, and there's a very real chance that all he needs is an opportunity. Chicago wants to win now, so they don't have time to find out. But the O's will not be contending, so they have the time. In fact, that's the entire point of 2009.

Not sure what that life raft thing means. Meanwhile, you should probably ask yourself that first part.

Sorry, didn't realize you were on the O's. What position do you play?[/QUOTE]

This is foolishness.

[Sports Guy]

I am curious about something.....

Do you people understand what it means to be a rebuilding team?

Do you understand what it means to give people a real oppurtunity?

I am beginning to think that people are fine with youth and rebuilding but that they aren't willing to live with the growing pains of it.

Well, here is a thought...If you fall into that category, I suggest you go to this site and have a good time:

http://forums.nyyfans.com/

Bye....We hardly knew ye.

[Moose Milligan]

I am curious about something.....

Do you people understand what it means to be a rebuilding team?

Do you understand what it means to give people a real oppurtunity?

I am beginning to think that people are fine with youth and rebuilding but that they aren't willing to live with the growing pains of it.

Well, here is a thought...If you fall into that category, I suggest you go to this site and have a good time:

http://forums.nyyfans.com/

Bye....We hardly knew ye.

Nah, they just want things THEIR way and when the O's take the youth movement in a way that doesn't jive with THEIR way, they fail to even see where the O's are coming from.

Like that Melewski article, I can't believe people are getting so ticked off that we're giving a young guy who oozes with talent and a good minor league track record time to establish himself in the majors.

Seriously, what gives?

[Elon Os Fan]

Nah, they just want things THEIR way and when the O's take the youth movement in a way that doesn't jive with THEIR way, they fail to even see where the O's are coming from.

Like that Melewski article, I can't believe people are getting so ticked off that we're giving a young guy who oozes with talent and a good minor league track record time to establish himself in the majors.

Seriously, what gives?

Young players need time to make adjustments. Its that simple!!!!!!

Patience is a virtue

[Sports Guy]

Nah, they just want things THEIR way and when the O's take the youth movement in a way that doesn't jive with THEIR way, they fail to even see where the O's are coming from.

Like that Melewski article, I can't believe people are getting so ticked off that we're giving a young guy who oozes with talent and a good minor league track record time to establish himself in the majors.

Seriously, what gives?

Yea..Its truly amazing....They get pissed if we put out a vet...They get pissed if we put out a top young unestablished talent.

Just amazing.

A total lack of understanding of what this organization needs to be doing.

[Big Mac]

I guess I'll have to weigh in on the side of "clueless" on this one. I don't think trading Olson for Pie was advisable. Not that Olson is the next Carlton, but I predict the Pie experiment will end regretfully. While I understand the whole potential thing, I think it is easily argued that Reimold has proven his major league READINESS moreso than Pie. I also think the Cubs would have cut Felix and we could have signed him to a minor league contract. That's where he belongs. I know, I know he has played three years at AAA, but he doesn't have the numbers I want to see from a corner outfielder.

No, I'm not a JTrea henchman, just an independent thinker who cringes at this plan. Otherwise, I'm on board with everything Andy is doing.

A .973 OPS wasn't good enough for you?

At 22 years old, Felix Pie put up a .973 OPS in AAA. Nolan Reimold has never had an OPS that high at any level. In fact, when Reimold was 22, he posted a .834 OPS in A+ ball.

I'm not trying to knock Reimold, because I think he will have a successful ML career, but to say Pie doesn't hit enough for a corner OF and Reimold does is a flawed argument. Not to mention Pie has more speed and is an elite defender.

I'd like it if we could trade Scott, then Reimold could play LF angainst LHP and also get some time at DH.

[crawdad]

I fixed that part for you. There's little logic in much of the anti-FO rhetoric as the arguments are based on every kind of fallacy from generalization to personal bias. I think giving Pie a chance, with Reimold's subsequent demotion, is the right move because one has an option, while the other does not. If Pie puts it together, it will be seen as a success, if not, he'll be another FO mistake. It's not logical to think that way, but many of the responses on this board fall into that category.

Besides, if people think Pie doesn't deserve a spot based on ST, then neither does Penn nor did AJones after his poor production before coming to B'more.

Yet small sample sizes and upside are the things that should keep people from jumping to conclusions about Pie's potential.

Oh, I think that there is a lot of logic in it. I mean . . . it is logical to think that mint will taste like mesclun because they are green. It is wrong, but it does follow a logical path. That path is flawed though because there is an assumption that color directs taste.

[Big Mac]

Nah, they just want things THEIR way and when the O's take the youth movement in a way that doesn't jive with THEIR way, they fail to even see where the O's are coming from.

Like that Melewski article, I can't believe people are getting so ticked off that we're giving a young guy who oozes with talent and a good minor league track record time to establish himself in the majors.

Seriously, what gives?

I'll never understand this either.

Last year, people were willing to give up B-Rob for Pie. What exactly has Pie done over the past year to make everyone change their mind?

He struggled in 83 sporadic ML AB's, was sent down, and played well in AAA.

Some people on here are just completely clueless.

[Moose Milligan]

I'll never understand this either.

Last year, people were willing to give up B-Rob for Pie. What exactly has Pie done over the past year to make everyone change their mind?

He struggled in 83 sporadic ML AB's, was sent down, and played well in AAA.

Some people on here are just completely clueless.

I agree.

Like I've said before, I don't think Pie will amount to much...his bb/k rate really worries me, but it's not like I'm naive enough to think that he can't improve.

But even if we didn't score Pie and were gonna let Montanez/Reimold battle it out for LF, I'd still be happy...

...cause either way you cut it, we don't have Jay Payton out there this year. Pie, Montanez, and Reimold are all younger guys with upside that can potentially help this team down the road.

So if Pie doesn't work out, no biggie.

[George]

I'll never understand this either.

Last year, people were willing to give up B-Rob for Pie. What exactly has Pie done over the past year to make everyone change their mind?

He struggled in 83 sporadic ML AB's, was sent down, and played well in AAA.

Some people on here are just completely clueless.

Doesn't matter if some fans are absurdly impatient and demand instant gratification. It does matter that the GM and manager are patient.

I'm amazed at the improvement in the team and organization since MacPhail took over just a couple years ago. It's a whole new ball game with our new GM.

I'm really looking forward to watching Pie this year and hope for the best. Whatever happens with Pie, it's a lot more fun to follow the O's when many of its players have at least a chance to become excellent ball players.

I'm also looking forward to a much improved defense, especially at shortstop and behind the plate. When Wieters is brought up, it's going to become more difficult to buy a ticket. I'd really like to see Matusz pitch and Wieters catch later this year.

[Florida_Osfan]

Oh, I think that there is a lot of logic in it. I mean . . . it is logical to think that mint will taste like mesclun because they are green. It is wrong, but it does follow a logical path. That path is flawed though because there is an assumption that color directs taste.

Exactly on the last part. It's flawed thinking on the part of many posters who feel that you can judge a move based on little to no evidence, pure instinct, or even just genuine bias against/toward a move. Truth be told, I'm psyched about seeing guys like Pie, and eventually Reimold, earning spots on the team.

I didn't really mean to contradict you, too, as I just thought I'd reinforce an already good observation of those against keeping him.

[RShack]

Nope. Never said this. Other posters in this thread have suggested that three months of failure wouldn't be enough to show what his previous team has already decided: Pie can't hit.

Three months will be plenty for me.

But why? It likely won't be as simple as he either can hit or he can't.

More likely, he will be able to hit some things just fine, but has trouble with other things. (Like the trouble Nick had when he got jammed.) So, it won't be that either he can or can't, but rather a matter of how many weaknesses he has, and are we seeing him and Crow finding solutions for the weaknesses. If there's progress, it likely won't be an overnight thing. Personally, if he's making progress than it's fine with me. But whether it takes 2 months or 3 months or 4 months or 5 months, that's just small potatoes that doesn't really matter.

After three months, Nick's OPS it was .700.

After five months, it was .851.

If you quit looking after 3 months you would have missed the important part.

[JTrea81]

I am curious about something.....

Do you people understand what it means to be a rebuilding team?

Do you understand what it means to give people a real oppurtunity?

I am beginning to think that people are fine with youth and rebuilding but that they aren't willing to live with the growing pains of it.

Well, here is a thought...If you fall into that category, I suggest you go to this site and have a good time:

http://forums.nyyfans.com/

Bye....We hardly knew ye.

We don't have to be unbearable to watch to rebuild. That's where the whole thing about being a rebuilding team means you have to stink just doesn't make sense. Just because it took other teams years years to turn around and those teams were bad, doesn't mean the Orioles have to follow the same path. We shouldn't have had to tank the season or have tanked last season to rebuild.

A rebuilding team doesn't neccessarily need projects to fix either and that is what Pie is, MacPhail's pet project. I think the Orioles are using the rebuilding word to not put as much effort on to their on the field product because let's face it with the majority opinion on this board that everything is great why would they? When the fans are still showing up and supporting this awful product, what reason is there for MacPhail to improve the on-field product when the Orioles are still raking it in and getting support from fans who are eating up MacPhail's every word?

It's really insulting for the Orioles to expect anybody to come out and drop money to see this team next season in this economy. Especially when it is obvious they don't care how the ML squad is going to perform. Sadly so many on here have bought what MacPhail is selling and will spend money to watch Adam Eaton take turns in the rotation because we are "rebuilding."

SG tell me if it was Rocco Baldelli we got instead of Pie and he was stinking up ST, would you want him on the team over Reimold?