He's a LOOGY!

[Palmer Esque]

Not comparing the two, but Rivera blew a 4 out save as well.

Off with his head, and Girardi's as well.. :rofl:

[RLB29]

To all the Sherrill bashers...compare the two pitching lines from last night:

IP H R ER W SO HR

M Rivera (B, 1) 1.1 3 2 2 0 3 1

G Sherrill (B, 1) 1.1 2 2 2 0 2 1

Stuff happens even to the best...get over it.

Sherrill is an adequate closer. Until you can get someone like Rivera (maybe Ray if he's healthy), Sherrill can be a very valuable part of this team. Remember every time he gets a save the team wins. If he get 25 saves, that means that he is personally responsible for 25 wins. There aren't too many players on a team that can say they were personally responsible for 25 wins.

[Three Run Homer]

Remember every time he gets a save the team wins. If he get 25 saves, that means that he is personally responsible for 25 wins. There aren't too many players on a team that can say they were personally responsible for 25 wins.

This is either a masterpiece of dry humor, or one of the dumbest things I've read on the board in a long time.

I love Sherrill's bulldog mentality, but he's overmatched as a closer. No shame in that. Let him excel in the lefty matchup role.

[BaltimoreTerp]

To all the Sherrill bashers...compare the two pitching lines from last night:

IP H R ER W SO HR

M Rivera (B, 1) 1.1 3 2 2 0 3 1

G Sherrill (B, 1) 1.1 2 2 2 0 2 1

Stuff happens even to the best...get over it.

Sherrill is an adequate closer. Until you can get someone like Rivera (maybe Ray if he's healthy), Sherrill can be a very valuable part of this team. Remember every time he gets a save the team wins. If he get 25 saves, that means that he is personally responsible for 25 wins. There aren't too many players on a team that can say they were personally responsible for 25 wins.

I'm sure some superstar player had a similar line to Felix Pie's last night, too. Want me to post a comparison?

[The Rick]

I'm not saying we shouldn't have a closer. Not that I think it's always efficient, I'm fine with that general role. I'm saying that Sherrill is not that closer... he's a LOOGY, and he needs to be used as one.

And to everyone calling me reactionary... it's certainly true that I posted this in a little fit of anger after the homer. But I, like many people here, have felt for a long time that Sherrill shouldn't be facing righties in most situations. I didn't need this game to convince me the bullpen is being mismanaged, it was just a catalyst for starting this thread.

I avoided making any grand statements after the game last night because I feared I would be viewed as reactionary. But you're exactly right, I'm one of the people who have felt for a while that Sherrill shouldn't be our closer, and I still do feel that way. We need to promote Ray or Johnson.

Roch asked Trembley about why he yanked Uehara:

Davis was 0-2 with a K on the night vs. Uehara and he was up with the bases empty and two outs. The worst thing that happens is that Davis hits a solo HR. That's one run and you've still got a lead. I think considering how Uehara had owned Davis on the night, Trembley should have left him in.

That would have changed events drastically from what followed IMO. It was the key mistake of the night.

I think it's fairly clear what Trembley was saying here. Koji had just given up a couple of well hit, long fly ball outs. He looked like he was out of gas and made the conservative move to bring in Walker, an optimum matchup for Davis. How this doesn't add up for you is beyond me. Could Trembley have left Koji out there? Perhaps, but does bringing in Walker in that situation make sense? Yes, it does... period.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I avoided making any grand statements after the game last night because I feared I would be viewed as reactionary. But you're exactly right, I'm one of the people who have felt for a while that Sherrill shouldn't be our closer, and I still do feel that way. We need to promote Ray or Johnson.

I think it's fairly clear what Trembley was saying here. Koji had just given up a couple of well hit, long fly ball outs. He looked like he was out of gas and made the conservative move to bring in Walker, an optimum matchup for Davis. How this doesn't add up for you is beyond me. Could Trembley have left Koji out there? Perhaps, but does bringing in Walker in that situation make sense? Yes, it does... period.

Koji gave up a few of those all game. If last night was a game in July, he would have been shelled.

Sherrill would be great as a lefty guy who we could bring in and not worry much if he needed to get out a righty from time to time. However, he's not at all good at getting righties out.

[rolliefingers]

I wonder if McPhail and/or Trembley actually believe that GS is a quality closer or if they are just trying to inflate his trade value by racking up some saves? If its the former, I would be very concerned. I like GS, but he is in the complete wrong role. He is not a closer, or even an 8th inning guy. Like the thread title says....he is a LOOGY.

If that's what they have been trying to do, they should have dealt him last year when he had some value as a closer. By now, he's not fooling anyone.

He's a good ML pitcher, I'm not knocking the guy. But I agree, he's being used in the wrong role, and I think your reasoning is right.

[payray10]

Thats horse hockey, you may have called it, but why is everyone is a rush to post the first reactionary/ blame this loss on this guy thread???????

It's baseball, their is a goat and hero every night.

Koji should get a thread tonight praising his start and effort, not four about why we lost the game.

I'm with this guy. Koji was outstanding tonight. We're going to lose some games that we didn't deserve to, lets just hope we are on the right end of more of these games than we have been in the past few seasons.

And if I were manager of this team, with these arms, I wouldn't fall victim to the conventional thinking of having to use a "closer" that absolutely has to get the last out of a game. You let the game dictate the situation, who is fresh, the numbers, etc. That being said I'm still more comfortable with Sherrill than Ray right now.

[ccbird]

BTW... for those of you questioning Trembley on his Ray usage last night he only had him pitch .1 of an inning because he is our closer for tonight. With that in mind I'm not sure how anyone can argue much with the buttons Trembley pushed last night. How else was he to play the 8th and 9th.

[BaltimoreTerp]

BTW... for those of you questioning Trembley on his Ray usage last night he only had him pitch .1 of an inning because he is our closer for tonight. With that in mind I'm not sure how anyone can argue much with the buttons Trembley pushed last night. How else was he to play the 8th and 9th.

Wait, what? He's our closer for tonight? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard, and if true would immediately make me call for his head.

Why not pitch him through the eighth, Johnson in the ninth, and then have Sherrill pitch tonight? I mean granted that would require thinking about the game instead of following a set order, but I guess we wouldn't want to try something radical like that.

[BaltimoreTerp]

The Marlins took Johnson out after 7 scoreless yesterday with a 3-0 lead. After a scoreless 8th by one reliever, Matt Lindstrom, the closer, was put in to "protect" the three run lead to start the ninth. He gave up 7 runs and they lost 7-3. Easiest save situation out there and it didn't matter.

Rivera gave up a 2 run homer with a run lead with two outs in the 9th last night and the Yanks eventually lost.

Things happen. I'm just saying.

Of course "things happen". However, things are less likely to "happen" if the right people are used the right way.

[SrMeowMeow]

I think that the bullpen wasn't used optimally, but that's at least partially with the benefit of hindsight. I also think that people need to calm down. Everyone freaks out every time a reliever gives up a run, but you don't get a 0.00 ERA from anyone. Giving up runs, making mistakes, and getting beat by good players happens. There is no way around it.

However, I do think that Sherrill just isn't anything special as a reliever. He had one good season (45 IP) for Seattle in a spacious pitcher's park, covering for his flyball tendencies nicely, and then hasn't been under a 4.00 since his first 20 ML innings. I still don't understand why we even targeted him in the Bedard deal, since the Mariners didn't really want to give him up anyway as I understood it. He's just a bad fit for our park. I understand we don't really have anyone better, I just don't see why anyone is surprised by a low 4s ERA from him?

[ccbird]

Wait, what? He's our closer for tonight? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard, and if true would immediately make me call for his head.

Why not pitch him through the eighth, Johnson in the ninth, and then have Sherrill pitch tonight? I mean granted that would require thinking about the game instead of following a set order, but I guess we wouldn't want to try something radical like that.

Couple of reasons.

1. Johnson is is not the closer and Sherrill is. It's as simple as that. When Sherrill is available to pitch and close out games he will. Last night he was available. I understand that some people don't like being rigid and calling one guy the closer but that's the way baseball works right now.

2. I believe tonight would be an audition and easing in of Ray into the closer's role. Again, if Ray keeps pitching like he has and proves he is ready for the job it is only a matter of time before he regains the gig.

I will say that once Trembley moves Sherrill out of the closer's role I'd like to see more matching up late in the game instead of just giving Johnson the 8th. If Johnson needs to come in and retire a guy or two in the 7th and then come out to get the 1st RH batter in the 8th before Sherrill comes into get 2 lefties in a row than do it. In that sense I'd like to see Trembley become more flexible but right now with Sherrill in the closer's role he has no other lefty to play matchups late in the game. Walker is a true LOOGY who is probably going to ptch to his hitter(s) earlier in the game.

[Since'54]

The Marlins took Johnson out after 7 scoreless yesterday with a 3-0 lead. After a scoreless 8th by one reliever, Matt Lindstrom, the closer, was put in to "protect" the three run lead to start the ninth. He gave up 7 runs and they lost 7-3. Easiest save situation out there and it didn't matter.

Rivera gave up a 2 run homer with a run lead with two outs in the 9th last night and the Yanks eventually lost.

Things happen. I'm just saying.

And you think is an argument in favor of the closer myth?

[ChaosLex]

Bumpity bump bump.