Brian Matusz 4/25

[QBsILLEST1]

Sorry, I have yet to see one that has Matusz rated higher than Tillman. Everything I have seen has said that both of them profile as #2's but the difference between a 2 and an ace isn't physical, it's that mental edge and ability to take the ball and stop a streak, or to give your team a chance to win every time out. You can't really evaluate Matusz this season because he is just working on refining points of his game, you aren't seeing the full package yet. When they think he's got the touch he needs on his fastball and curveball, you'll see him use the changeup with it and it will be a nasty combo.

Yes they are both projected to be #2's, but right now, not based on stats, but based off of where they currently are in their developmental stage, IMO Matusz is better. Tillman is projected to be a number 2, and is in AAA, 2 steps higher than Matusz, but in order for Tillman to become a #2, he needs to refine his control, 3rd pitch, go deeper into games/ become more pitch efficient. In order for Matusz to be a #2, he just needs to show he can get pro hitters out, he really doesnt have anyting to work on, excpet cutting down these walks, which based off of his college career says is a fluke. So, maybe this is a misinterpretation of what I am saying so that is where the clash is coming from here, the 2 are projected to be similar, but right now Tillman is NOT a #2 yet, either is Matusz, but Matusz is closer.

[allstar1579]

Yes they are both projected to be #2's, but right now, not based on stats, but based off of where they currently are in their developmental stage, IMO Matusz is better. Tillman is projected to be a number 2, and is in AAA, 2 steps higher than Matusz, but in order for Tillman to become a #2, he needs to refine his control, 3rd pitch, go deeper into games/ become more pitch efficient. In order for Matusz to be a #2, he just needs to show he can get pro hitters out, he really doesnt have anyting to work on, excpet cutting down these walks, which based off of his college career says is a fluke. So, maybe this is a misinterpretation of what I am saying so that is where the clash is coming from here, the 2 are projected to be similar, but right now Tillman is NOT a #2 yet, either is Matusz, but Matusz is closer.

It's hard to really get a footing in a disagreement like this because it's all projection. This projection doesn't usually change too much unless someone does something drastic to change their style, or list of pitches. Tillman is projected to be a #2 if he does all those things you are saying, so essentially we are saying the same thing, IF Tillman improves what we agree he needs to improve, he has the stuff to be a #2. Same thing with Matusz though, if he improves setting up pitches and gets away from the reliance on his secondary pitches, and needs to improve the use of his fastball if he can't add any velocity to it. (his fastball is pretty close to Bergy's) IF he can do this he has the stuff to be a #2 as well.

They both have some work to do, you can say Matusz is ahead because of his grasp of the secondary stuff, but he is also lacking the necessary experience by a couple full years, so that balances out with the command issues Tillman needs to iron out. And don't forget, Tillman is younger than Matusz.

This is about as much of a compliment as you can give a pitching prospect, you should VERY rarely see someone labeled an "ace" as a prospect because much of that is based on the mental aspect of pitching that is impossible to know what you have until they are faced with it. Look at Bedard, he has #1 stuff, but he doesn't have the mental toughness to pitch through to the 7th-8th every night, to pitch injured, or the desire to go out there and win no matter what. A #2 will politely hand you the ball when you come to the mound after a great start, an Ace will try to punch you in the face and tell you he's finishing the game.

[QBsILLEST1]

It's hard to really get a footing in a disagreement like this because it's all projection. This projection doesn't usually change too much unless someone does something drastic to change their style, or list of pitches. Tillman is projected to be a #2 if he does all those things you are saying, so essentially we are saying the same thing, IF Tillman improves what we agree he needs to improve, he has the stuff to be a #2. Same thing with Matusz though, if he improves setting up pitches and gets away from the reliance on his secondary pitches, and needs to improve the use of his fastball if he can't add any velocity to it. (his fastball is pretty close to Bergy's) IF he can do this he has the stuff to be a #2 as well.

They both have some work to do, you can say Matusz is ahead because of his grasp of the secondary stuff, but he is also lacking the necessary experience by a couple full years, so that balances out with the command issues Tillman needs to iron out. And don't forget, Tillman is younger than Matusz.

This is about as much of a compliment as you can give a pitching prospect, you should VERY rarely see someone labeled an "ace" as a prospect because much of that is based on the mental aspect of pitching that is impossible to know what you have until they are faced with it. Look at Bedard, he has #1 stuff, but he doesn't have the mental toughness to pitch through to the 7th-8th every night, to pitch injured, or the desire to go out there and win no matter what. A #2 will politely hand you the ball when you come to the mound after a great start, an Ace will try to punch you in the face and tell you he's finishing the game.

The problem with arguing in all of this is because it is based on opinion, and there is no real way to base an answer right or wrong until Matusz and Tillman are about 5-6 years deep into the majors. But I do like your specifications for a #1 though

[allstar1579]

The problem with arguing in all of this is because it is based on opinion, and there is no real way to base an answer right or wrong until Matusz and Tillman are about 5-6 years deep into the majors. But I do like your specifications for a #1 though

Yeah, I mean it's a moot point really. I'd take a rotation with 3 #2's and two #3's any day of the week. I could care less who slots into what role so to speak, as long as we have a chance to win more than lose 75-80% of the time.

[wayne25]

He's saying that because your tone came off like your opinion was fact. Could just be the lack of internet context.

And you don't have to agree with what Jim says, but there is no need to get offended either. Just like you have said over and over the past page that this stuff is your opinion, that is his opinion, that if people don't have sufficient background or evidence to back up a claim, then they shouldn't be making it, especially this early in a season.

Hey, I was just responging to the Sarcasm in his post.

[allstar1579]

Hey, I was just responging to the Sarcasm in his post.

It's all good, just trying to keep the peace with some calm translation. Jim is a very regarded poster in these here forums