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What did DT do wrong tonight?


El Gordo

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What's the mistake? Koji has been bad in the 7th inning and past 90 pitches all season. Walker had a 2.xx ERA, Johnson is arguably your best power reliever.

The big thing here is: if it works out, nobody is questioning it! It's the typical hindsight criticism, which is ridiculous. Most managers would do the same exact thing. Criticisizing DT for this type of stuff is idiotic because nobody knows if Koji wouldn't have done the same exact thing as Walker and Johnson!

Wow, man.

I am with you.

If the Orioles win then DT did everything right. Well, no he doesn't actually. All of the credit goes to the players. But somehow DT needs to be clairvoyant enough to know that if he would have just left Koji in there, even though last week he was criticized for leaving Koji in TOO LONG, that everything would be fine!

This stuff is 90% arm-chair quarterbacking.

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Another thing he's forgetting is that our LOOGY can't get lefties out. The best move would have been to bring Breezy in but I guess that's going against DT's bullpen philosophy.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=walkeja01&year=2009&t=p#plato

The difference between his .250 BAA to RH and his .450 BAA to LF is TWO HITS

RH are 2/12

LH are 4/12

Against lefties : 5 K and no walks.

So yeah, I really don't think he is having much trouble.

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I personally don't think Trembley has much of a clue how to use this bullpen.

Bringing in Baez in a blow out was pretty idiotic. You throw Bass out there, let him eat some innings, and be done with it. In a blow out, don't waste your best guys, especially guys that can't go back to back.

I don't understand how Trembley isn't using Sherrill or Walker as a LOOGY more often. Extend these guys if possible, especially if they're effective in this role.

I think Koji could have went another inning, but if we have Baez, this isn't an issue. But you pull out Koji and throw walker to face Cano. I don't disagree with that move since Cano is a lefty, but I don't think it should have even came to this. Leave Koji in, as he appeared to be sailing. If you had Baez (but you didn't) he can bridge the gap to the 9th (or even use him in the 9th if the game dictated such).

The Damon home run was definitely a PITA and not Trembley's fault, as the 2 hits prior weren't exactly scorchers off of Johnson. This game can be mostly blamed on the team for not pulling through in situational hitting. I'd put a bit of the blame on Trembley for not having Baez for today or even extending Koji, but it's much ado about nothing at this point.

Trembley has made a number of head scratchers, but most of them have been related to pitching matchups, not leaving relievers in long enough, pidgeonholing guys into set roles (Sherrill isn't a closer, IMHO, but he's not the only reason I say this), and not giving guys ample time (Pie). Either way, Trembley has been decent this season, but he's not handling the bullpen very well at all.

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I don't think 25 of the current managers know how to perfectly manage a bullpen. Mainly because the bullpens themselves make them impossible. Most bullpens are achilles heels. Middle relief is where all the marginal talent ends up.

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I'm not much for second guessing the manager on a game by game basis, because so much of it is 20/20. Every manager makes good decisions that just don't work out and bad decisions that get lost in a win.

That said, there's one thing that's been bothering me about DT so I figured I'd throw it at the mercy of this thread.

On more than one occasion, I've heard him say (when asked about how/why he decided to pull a pitcher) "The bats will tell you". This suggests that pitch count and bullpen roles are secondary to how the pitcher did last inning or last batter. IMO, DT doesn't manage this way. He is clearly a "role guy" and has even publicly defined and redefined the roles.

Yesterday for example, if he really "let the bats" tell him when to make a change, then Koji starts the 7th. If he's concerned (and rightly so) that Koji is going to run out of steam, then have somebody ready.

I'm not saying that bullpen roles aren't important or that pitch count and stats aren't good indicators, but I do think that at times you have to ride the hot hand. And I don't damn DT for managing that way, in fact it seems that's the way most teams like to do it. But I want to see him use his instincts a little more. ie; if JJ breezes through the 8th on 10 pitches, I'd like to see him start the 9th. DT should let the bats tell him a little more often.

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I personally don't think Trembley has much of a clue how to use this bullpen.

Bringing in Baez in a blow out was pretty idiotic. You throw Bass out there, let him eat some innings, and be done with it. In a blow out, don't waste your best guys, especially guys that can't go back to back.

I don't understand how Trembley isn't using Sherrill or Walker as a LOOGY more often. Extend these guys if possible, especially if they're effective in this role.

I think Koji could have went another inning, but if we have Baez, this isn't an issue. But you pull out Koji and throw walker to face Cano. I don't disagree with that move since Cano is a lefty, but I don't think it should have even came to this. Leave Koji in, as he appeared to be sailing. If you had Baez (but you didn't) he can bridge the gap to the 9th (or even use him in the 9th if the game dictated such).

The Damon home run was definitely a PITA and not Trembley's fault, as the 2 hits prior weren't exactly scorchers off of Johnson. This game can be mostly blamed on the team for not pulling through in situational hitting. I'd put a bit of the blame on Trembley for not having Baez for today or even extending Koji, but it's much ado about nothing at this point.

Trembley has made a number of head scratchers, but most of them have been related to pitching matchups, not leaving relievers in long enough, pidgeonholing guys into set roles (Sherrill isn't a closer, IMHO, but he's not the only reason I say this), and not giving guys ample time (Pie). Either way, Trembley has been decent this season, but he's not handling the bullpen very well at all.

It is NEVER a blow out against the Yankees.

Eaton was doing his best to give the lead back, we needed Baez to go in there and shut them down, not have Bass decide to play like its April again.

Again, Koji was sailing in his last start, then buckled. And EVERYONE said that he was left in too long.

Again, he brings in Walker to face lefties, as a LOOGY and then his best set-up guy who does not give up homers.

I don;t understand how Baez would have been any different in that situation.

This is so hysterical. If DT gives Pie more time people complain that he isn't giving Montanez a legit shot. Meanwhile Riemold is down in Norfolk while we worry about Pie.

You say that he Pigeonholes guys too much, yet you insist that he only use Walker and Sherrill as LOOGYs? Aren't those roles? Roles that Trembley relies too much on?

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I personally don't think Trembley has much of a clue how to use this bullpen.

Bringing in Baez in a blow out was pretty idiotic. You throw Bass out there, let him eat some innings, and be done with it. In a blow out, don't waste your best guys, especially guys that can't go back to back.

I don't understand how Trembley isn't using Sherrill or Walker as a LOOGY more often. Extend these guys if possible, especially if they're effective in this role.

I think Koji could have went another inning, but if we have Baez, this isn't an issue. But you pull out Koji and throw walker to face Cano. I don't disagree with that move since Cano is a lefty, but I don't think it should have even came to this. Leave Koji in, as he appeared to be sailing. If you had Baez (but you didn't) he can bridge the gap to the 9th (or even use him in the 9th if the game dictated such).

The Damon home run was definitely a PITA and not Trembley's fault, as the 2 hits prior weren't exactly scorchers off of Johnson. This game can be mostly blamed on the team for not pulling through in situational hitting. I'd put a bit of the blame on Trembley for not having Baez for today or even extending Koji, but it's much ado about nothing at this point.

Trembley has made a number of head scratchers, but most of them have been related to pitching matchups, not leaving relievers in long enough, pidgeonholing guys into set roles (Sherrill isn't a closer, IMHO, but he's not the only reason I say this), and not giving guys ample time (Pie). Either way, Trembley has been decent this season, but he's not handling the bullpen very well at all.

You state that DT doesn't have much of a clue as to how to manage a bullpen and then you use as an example a questionable move that you term idiotic. Well a questionable move is one where a reasonable alternative can be presented. An idoitic move is one where no reason can be made to justify it. Baez in the blow out was questionable, but many here have presented reasons why it could be made. I think the head scratchers depend a lot on what's inside the head that's being scratched. In some cases that's not so much. Avoid the hyperbole and you might be taken more seriously.
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I don't think 25 of the current managers know how to perfectly manage a bullpen. Mainly because the bullpens themselves make them impossible. Most bullpens are achilles heels. Middle relief is where all the marginal talent ends up.

BINGO!

Finally someone gets it!

And it is a no win situation for a manager. If Walker comes in and fails to get the lefty out then DT is "relying too much on roles". If Walker gets the lefty out but then pulls him he is "relying too much on roles". If Walker gets the lefty out but loses the righty then its "WHY IS DT LEAVING HIM IN THERE HE IS A LOOGY!?". If Walker GETS the lefty and righty out then WALKER is a great pitcher - no mention of DT.

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I don't think 25 of the current managers know how to perfectly manage a bullpen. Mainly because the bullpens themselves make them impossible. Most bullpens are achilles heels. Middle relief is where all the marginal talent ends up.

This is true, however a good manager will know how to work around the talent that he has and use it to his advantage.

For example, from the Sheehan article, that situation would have been PERFECT for Sherrill: four lefties (with a switch-hitter mixed in), in a critical part of the game. You use the numbers to your advantage, while also allowing for Sherrill's mentality in a tough situation.

You don't bring in your "LOOGY" who can't get lefties. You don't bring in your recovering former closer who is struggling against lefties. You bring in the pitcher that best fits the SITUATION.

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BINGO!

Finally someone gets it!

And it is a no win situation for a manager. If Walker comes in and fails to get the lefty out then DT is "relying too much on roles". If Walker gets the lefty out but then pulls him he is "relying too much on roles". If Walker gets the lefty out but loses the righty then its "WHY IS DT LEAVING HIM IN THERE HE IS A LOOGY!?". If Walker GETS the lefty and righty out then WALKER is a great pitcher - no mention of DT.

If you got it, you wouldn't be making hypotheticals about Walker and instead be asking about Sherrill ;)

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You state that DT doesn't have much of a clue as to how to manage a bullpen and then you use as an example a questionable move that you term idiotic. Well a questionable move is one where a reasonable alternative can be presented. An idoitic move is one where no reason can be made to justify it. Baez in the blow out was questionable, but many here have presented reasons why it could be made. I think the head scratchers depend a lot on what's inside the head that's being scratched. In some cases that's not so much. Avoid the hyperbole and you might be taken more seriously.

I don't think it was questionable. Anything is defensible, but that doesn't mean it's reasonable nor correct.

I think it was an idiotic move. It's not hyperbole in my head. I'm all about using our best relievers in areas where they'll yield the best results for the team (see: tight situations). I'm also not for blowing through our arms for 1 out (see: Johnson a few games ago), nor not extending guys as necessary.

FWIW, I don't care what you think of me. ;) Nor really anyone on this forum, so need to throw the 'you might be taken more seriously' quip.

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BINGO!

Finally someone gets it!

And it is a no win situation for a manager. If Walker comes in and fails to get the lefty out then DT is "relying too much on roles". If Walker gets the lefty out but then pulls him he is "relying too much on roles". If Walker gets the lefty out but loses the righty then its "WHY IS DT LEAVING HIM IN THERE HE IS A LOOGY!?". If Walker GETS the lefty and righty out then WALKER is a great pitcher - no mention of DT.

If it's the most logical move and Walker fails, the player failed. If you put someone in to fail (see: a LOOGY in against a trio of righties), then it's an idiotic move, IMHO.

If you saw my argument above, I said Walker giving up the home run to Cano wasn't a bad decision on Trembley's fault for bringing in Cano. So don't try to weaken people's arguments by basically saying, "Nothing he does is right! He does this, and it fails, it's Trembley's fault. He does the other thing, and it fails, it's still Trembley's fault." Stop with that, because it's not a good argument, it's just a detraction.

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If it's the most logical move and Walker fails, the player failed. If you put someone in to fail (see: a LOOGY in against a trio of righties), then it's an idiotic move, IMHO.

If you saw my argument above, I said Walker giving up the home run to Cano wasn't a bad decision on Trembley's fault for bringing in Cano. So don't try to weaken people's arguments by basically saying, "Nothing he does is right! He does this, and it fails, it's Trembley's fault. He does the other thing, and it fails, it's still Trembley's fault." Stop with that, because it's not a good argument, it's just a detraction.

Great point.

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