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Crowley:: Pie's not going to play regularly


Frobby

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If Pie had shown at least a glimmer of the supposed talent he has, I would be all for continuing the experiment.
He has.
But he hasn't done that and I don't think he ever will.
Your opinion, which unfortunately the Orioles seem to share.
As I've mentioned before, he has a poor grasp of the strike zone,
Which has significantly improved, when he's played.
a swing that is much too long,
No argument there.
and a deer in the headlights look when he's out in LF.
Ditto.
It's time for a change. It could be short-sighted, but something has to be done about LF and the bottom third of the order.
...In a season that means nothing, aside from development of players like Pie.

Look, I get it. He hasn't played well, and Reimold has forced the issue. I see glimmers of hope, though, and I think it's a mistake to give up on him so soon.

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You could be right. But when the FO / Coaches decided to trade away Olson for him and made a commitment to see if he can become a MLB player, do you think they should be bailing out on that commitment after 25-26 games? I think that's foolish. In a season where we aren't going anywhere, their lack of patience here is disturbing. Again, unless Pie is creating problems for himself we aren't aware of.

I'm not questioning their ending the commitment, I'm questioning why they did it after seeing Pie in ST. He was clearly outplayed by Montanez and Reimold yet the took Pie north because of potential and tools. And as I've said numerous timed, that doesn't always translate into a productive player. I think they decided to make the change now because Pie seems to be regressing and his hustle hasn't seemed to be there. My biggest question is how so many people in the Organization couldn't see Pie for what he is, a AAAA player.

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So Pie in LF today. Does this change anything for you guys? And if he hits a HR, and 2 singles how far will your head explode?

If he does, you better believe I'm going to be beating my chest about it.

Sure, it's only one game, but lots of people have judged him on 20-something games, when his ENTIRE MiL resume suggests that he's a good player.

Live by the small sample size, die by the small sample size, is what I'm saying. :)

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I'm not questioning their ending the commitment, I'm questioning why they did it after seeing Pie in ST. He was clearly outplayed by Montanez and Reimold yet the took Pie north because of potential and tools.

Uh, no, it was potential, tools, and the fact that Reimold and Montanez had options, whereas Pie did not. That's, uh, a somewhat important part of the puzzle, don't you think?

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I'm not questioning their ending the commitment, I'm questioning why they did it after seeing Pie in ST. He was clearly outplayed by Montanez and Reimold yet the took Pie north because of potential and tools. And as I've said numerous timed, that doesn't always translate into a productive player. I think they decided to make the change now because Pie seems to be regressing and his hustle hasn't seemed to be there. My biggest question is how so many people in the Organization couldn't see Pie for what he is, a AAAA player.

They took Pie north because the others had all 3 options left and Pie had none. He's also a backup CF and Lou isn't (and NR may not be either at the ML level).

I think 24 years old is a little early to be calling a guy a 4A player. He might be eventually, but the verdict doesn't usually come that soon.

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Uh, no, it was potential, tools, and the fact that Reimold and Montanez had options, whereas Pie did not. That's, uh, a somewhat important part of the puzzle, don't you think?

It's very important. I just think talent evaluation is more important.

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Uh, no, it was potential, tools, and the fact that Reimold and Montanez had options, whereas Pie did not. That's, uh, a somewhat important part of the puzzle, don't you think?

Nothing that Satyr said was wrong, though. Considering how much DT talked about winning a job in spring, I think it's fair to bring that back up, even though everyone knows that there were other factors. DT is the one who brought up how important it is to win a job in spring. Pie didn't win his, and I think that's all Satyr is talking about.

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Nothing that Satyr said was wrong, though. Considering how much DT talked about winning a job in spring, I think it's fair to bring that back up, even though everyone knows that there were other factors. DT is the one who brought up how important it is to win a job in spring. Pie didn't win his, and I think that's all Satyr is talking about.

Well, personally, I don't really believe in that crap anyway. If I were a GM or manager, ST stats could sway me in certain circumstances (e.g. Markakis in '06), but this was not one of them. Pie clearly deserved an extended look, and I personally don't feel we have anything conclusive yet. Clearly, many disagree, but I thought the O's took a longer view than that.

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Nothing that Satyr said was wrong, though. Considering how much DT talked about winning a job in spring, I think it's fair to bring that back up, even though everyone knows that there were other factors. DT is the one who brought up how important it is to win a job in spring. Pie didn't win his, and I think that's all Satyr is talking about.

He was talking about the starting rotation, backup SS and backup C, wasn't he?

This is not that unusual. Dennis Sarfate is probably only on the team because he's out of options.

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Pie has little else to prove at AAA. He's had 1,241 AB's in AAA and an OPS of .855. He needs time in the majors to get back on track, but unfortunately for him, Reimold deserves the shot more. Pie will stick as a 4th OF... that is what I see his ceiling as anyway. He needs to keep working with Crowley. But for now I see him as a late-inning defensive replacement/pinch runner.

I don't agree, and I think his AAA stats are being clouded by his age. Yes, he was young when he first reached AAA, but it is entirely possible that he has finished developing physically. There is no set rule on age/level. Pie may have developed early.

His OPS was .832, though, and in the PCL that's not impressive. The season that's obsessed over is 2007. He struck out once every 5.7 ABs. That's awful. There are reasons to think he needs more time in AAA (I think).

I agree he needs to work with Crowley, and have no problems keeping him as the 4th OF (for now).

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Well, personally, I don't really believe in that crap anyway. If I were a GM or manager, ST stats could sway me in certain circumstances (e.g. Markakis in '06), but this was not one of them. Pie clearly deserved an extended look, and I personally don't feel we have anything conclusive yet. Clearly, many disagree, but I thought the O's took a longer view than that.

Sure, but they said it. That's the important part. I think there are many valid reasons to think that Pie will not succeed based on his minor league stats. There are major red flags.

He was talking about the starting rotation, backup SS and backup C, wasn't he?

This is not that unusual. Dennis Sarfate is probably only on the team because he's out of options.

Why would pitchers be treated differently than position players? Again, though, I'm just talking about Satyr' point of view.

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I don't agree, and I think his AAA stats are being clouded by his age. Yes, he was young when he first reached AAA, but it is entirely possible that he has finished developing physically. There is no set rule on age/level. Pie may have developed early.

His OPS was .832, though, and in the PCL that's not impressive. The season that's obsessed over is 2007. He struck out once every 5.7 ABs. That's awful. There are reasons to think he needs more time in AAA (I think).

I agree he needs to work with Crowley, and have no problems keeping him as the 4th OF (for now).

Know who else strikes out a lot? Nolan Reimold.

Over their MiL careers, Pie has K'd once every 4.7 ABs. Reimold is 4.5. Adam Dunn was 4.5, too. Dunn has K'd once every 3 ABs in the majors.

Yes, Reimold and Dunn have higher OBPs and more power, but that doesn't mean Pie can't be a good player.

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Handing Pie the LF job out of ST was a mistake from the start as he should have had to earn it. Reimold outplayed him in ST and is destroying Norfolk.

Glad to see the Orioles seem to be finally correcting this mistake. It should have been a competition to begin with as the job should have been Reimold's all along.

Make no mistake about it though, Pie needs playing time to fix his errors, so keeping him as a 4th OFer would also be a mistake. The Orioles should DFA him and give him the LF job in Norfolk to see if he can handle it there. He can get his confidence back and then challenge Reimold in ST next year in a competition as it should have been this year. Nobody is going to want to put him on their 25 man roster the way he is playing now.

In your mind? Yes

In the real world? It was the 100% correct decision.

The mistake with Reimold was made last year, when they didn't bring him up the last few months.

Keeping him in the minors to start the year was good, if for no other reason, then because of service time.

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I'm not questioning their ending the commitment, I'm questioning why they did it after seeing Pie in ST. He was clearly outplayed by Montanez and Reimold yet the took Pie north because of potential and tools. And as I've said numerous timed, that doesn't always translate into a productive player. I think they decided to make the change now because Pie seems to be regressing and his hustle hasn't seemed to be there. My biggest question is how so many people in the Organization couldn't see Pie for what he is, a AAAA player.

Again, you could have a point. But once they made the decision, they must stick out. Otherwise how can we have any confidence in other decisions?

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