Round 6 Selection: Justin Dalles, C, South Carolina

[Lucky Jim]

One thing I've been wondering when it comes to decisions made on finances is whether it is Jordan or if it is really outside his control. From some of the interviews my impression he has a value in mind for players and would pass on someone who he felt was not worth the money regardless of whether signing that player worked within his budget.

If he has the budget for a particular player but he decides that player isn't worth the asking price it still should be on Jordan IMO. Of course if he wants a particular player, doesn't have the budget and gets turned down requesting to go above budget then it's not on him.

I get the sense, too, that there are two separate cost parameters involved. There's the Orioles' accounting, and Jordan's internal accounting.

I think his drafting probably owes as much or more to the latter as to the former. I don't think he appreciates ballplayers who he feels don't know their own value.

[allstar1579]

One thing I've been wondering when it comes to decisions made on finances is whether it is Jordan or if it is really outside his control. From some of the interviews my impression he has a value in mind for players and would pass on someone who he felt was not worth the money regardless of whether signing that player worked within his budget.

If he has the budget for a particular player but he decides that player isn't worth the asking price it still should be on Jordan IMO. Of course if he wants a particular player, doesn't have the budget and gets turned down requesting to go above budget then it's not on him.

Yeah, I wonder if Tony could get an answer out of Joe if he has an overall budget to go by and he has to make all of his picks fit in it (at least according to what they say they are asking for when drafted) or if he is in charge of deciding the BPA and then it's up to someone else to approve the actual monetary amount before selecting them. I don't know if he would answer a question detailing the war-room process like that or not, but I'd be interested to know.

[crawdad]

I get the sense, too, that there are two separate cost parameters involved. There's the Orioles' accounting, and Jordan's internal accounting.

I think his drafting probably owes as much or more to the latter as to the former. I don't think he appreciates ballplayers who he feels don't know their own value.

I think his internal consideration of worth though is highly dependent on his budget though. It is difficult to separate the two and imagine that if one is set with a budget . . . you try to exhaust that budget with you estimation of cost.

[Lucky Jim]

I think his internal consideration of worth though is highly dependent on his budget though. It is difficult to separate the two and imagine that if one is set with a budget . . . you try to exhaust that budget with you estimation of cost.

I don't disagree w/ that at all.

[Stotle]

One thing I've been wondering when it comes to decisions made on finances is whether it is Jordan or if it is really outside his control. From some of the interviews my impression he has a value in mind for players and would pass on someone who he felt was not worth the money regardless of whether signing that player worked within his budget.

If he has the budget for a particular player but he decides that player isn't worth the asking price it still should be on Jordan IMO. Of course if he wants a particular player, doesn't have the budget and gets turned down requesting to go above budget then it's not on him.

If I had to guess, I'd say Jordan is given a general budget for the entire draft, and he has to determine how to spend the money. I'd also guess that he needs to go to AM if he plans on going over slot by a certain amount.

Without knowing his budget, I'm not sure where to take my personal analysis of the BAL draft decisions, but I will say that if BBs numbers are correct (money you'd expect to give someone in the 1:11-19 range) then I personally would have been happy to grab Stassi, as I think that is right around where I'd have him valued (assuming his shoulder is healthy, of course).

[Stotle]

Yeah, I wonder if Tony could get an answer out of Joe if he has an overall budget to go by and he has to make all of his picks fit in it (at least according to what they say they are asking for when drafted) or if he is in charge of deciding the BPA and then it's up to someone else to approve the actual monetary amount before selecting them. I don't know if he would answer a question detailing the war-room process like that or not, but I'd be interested to know.

At that point, the draft moves a little too quickly for a sign-off from above, no? Just talking out loud...

Maybe between day 1 and 2, Jordan goes to AM or PA and says "I'm thinking about Stassi, but would need early to mid-1st round money to get him. Can we bump up the budget by $X?" Maybe he thinks about it and determines it's not worth bringing to AM or PA because of Stassi's shoulder. Maybe he rates Stassi as a second round talent and simply doesn't want to spend the money.

It's hard, there are lots of possibilities and no way to really know what happens/happened. To be honest, I'd prefer not to know. I don't think it's a process that the fanbase should be privy to, and were I Jordan I wouldn't want more heat on my decisions. I would be interested to know (as AS says) whether he has a set budget at the beginning of the draft and how much input he has in setting that budget.

[hoosiers]

My guess is there is a budget that AM and JJ agree to.

I have been doing budgeting and forecasting almost my entire working life. I imagine this budget would be based upon slot $ to sign X number of players based on the picks we have with perhaps a small pool to go above slot on early round guys - $250k or so (Avery and Miclat received slightly above slot last year, Matusz received significantly above slot after his agent appeared to change the requested amount after the draft). Then, there is probably a bucket of $ to go above slot. This could be a general number like $2M or something comprised of targets like signing a major above slot prospect - $750k, another above well above slot prospect - $500k, several smaller deals around $250k, and several $100k deal. Last year, the Os signed prospects after the fifth round to $1M in above slot deals - Bundy, Beal and Drake - and had similar $ outstanding to Brady, Landers and a few others and were turned down.

My expectation is that Joe Jordan would make every effort to stay within this budget. Of course, one would want to spend all the $ available as long as the talent were there making it difficult to sign additional summer follows that pan out or any prospects that proved slightly more costly than originally believed.

If JJ needed additional $ because a summer follow developed into a better prospect, I expect he would go to AM and ask for more $. In my discussions with JJ, he has asserted multiple times that he has been provided the $ to sign a player when asked, and that he would only offer a player the amount the player is worth - not more.

I expect JJ has, in his mind, the players he is ready to go over-slot for and will make those kids the initial offers. Others drafted may be back-ups in case some expected to sign do not sign or may be summer follows.

[Stotle]

My guess is there is a budget that AM and JJ agree to.

I have been doing budgeting and forecasting almost my entire working life. I imagine this budget would be based upon slot $ to sign X number of players based on the picks we have with perhaps a small pool to go above slot on early round guys - $250k or so (Avery and Miclat received slightly above slot last year, Matusz received significantly above slot after his agent appeared to change the requested amount after the draft). Then, there is probably a bucket of $ to go above slot. This could be a general number like $2M or something comprised of targets like signing a major above slot prospect - $750k, another above well above slot prospect - $500k, several smaller deals around $250k, and several $100k deal. Last year, the Os signed prospects after the fifth round to $1M in above slot deals - Bundy, Beal and Drake - and had similar $ outstanding to Brady, Landers and a few others and were turned down.

My expectation is that Joe Jordan would make every effort to stay within this budget. Of course, one would want to spend all the $ available as long as the talent were there making it difficult to sign additional summer follows that pan out or any prospects that proved slightly more costly than originally believed.

If JJ needed additional $ because a summer follow developed into a better prospect, I expect he would go to AM and ask for more $. In my discussions with JJ, he has asserted multiple times that he has been provided the $ to sign a player when asked, and that he would only offer a player the amount the player is worth - not more.

I expect JJ has, in his mind, the players he is ready to go over-slot for and will make those kids the initial offers. Others drafted may be back-ups in case some expected to sign do not sign or may be summer follows.

I assumed the bolded to be the case. I generally agree with paying what a player is worth, but not as a hard-fast rule. For example, a HSer may be asking for 3rd round money even if his current skillset doesn't quite warrant it. But if you look at the player and believe he could potentially be a Top 100 guy in three years, it may make sense to pay 3rd round money now, rather than 1st round money in three years. Likewise, if you have to pay a little more than "value" to buy a kid out of college, but you really like the kid, wouldn't it make sense to pay a little more to make sure you get the kid rather than rolling the dice on perhaps drafting him three years from now?

Of course, those examples may be included in Jordan's valuation calculation, in which case its a moot point.

[allstar1579]

At that point, the draft moves a little too quickly for a sign-off from above, no? Just talking out loud...

Maybe between day 1 and 2, Jordan goes to AM or PA and says "I'm thinking about Stassi, but would need early to mid-1st round money to get him. Can we bump up the budget by $X?" Maybe he thinks about it and determines it's not worth bringing to AM or PA because of Stassi's shoulder. Maybe he rates Stassi as a second round talent and simply doesn't want to spend the money.

It's hard, there are lots of possibilities and no way to really know what happens/happened. To be honest, I'd prefer not to know. I don't think it's a process that the fanbase should be privy to, and were I Jordan I wouldn't want more heat on my decisions. I would be interested to know (as AS says) whether he has a set budget at the beginning of the draft and how much input he has in setting that budget.

Well I mean this most of this stuff would be all ready by the time the draft starts. They would know who wants what, and I'm sure they have that written on their board, and I'm sure they know what guys might slip because of it. You gotta figure that week before the draft it is 20 hour days of meetings about scenarios just like that. That's why I said I wonder if he would even answer. Next time I see him I might have to ask him off the record for my own curiosity...but like you said, pandora's box, I don't think I really want to know, so I guess I'll let that one go.

[Stotle]

Well I mean this most of this stuff would be all ready by the time the draft starts. They would know who wants what, and I'm sure they have that written on their board, and I'm sure they know what guys might slip because of it. You gotta figure that week before the draft it is 20 hour days of meetings about scenarios just like that. That's why I said I wonder if he would even answer. Next time I see him I might have to ask him off the record for my own curiosity...but like you said, pandora's box, I don't think I really want to know, so I guess I'll let that one go.

How often do you see him/speak to him and in what capacity (rep of your site, fan, OH rep)?

[GoOs888]

http://www.thestate.com/usc/story/829845.html

Justin Dalles has signed.

[glenn__davis]

http://www.thestate.com/usc/story/829845.html

Justin Dalles has signed.

Excellent (and nice find, too). Thanks for the heads up!

[allstar1579]

How often do you see him/speak to him and in what capacity (rep of your site, fan, OH rep)?

Nothing formal yet, I've only met him once right after he got hired, I was working for Bowie at the time,just a casual nice to meet you thing. But I plan on spending some more time watching some of our minor leaguers soon so I have a feeling I'll see him again. Real nice guy though.

[Crazysilver03]

According to Melewski:

The three catchers are Justin Dalles, Brian Ward and Jason Stifler.

Dalles will be one of the catchers at Aberdeen.