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MacPhail's frugality is hurting this team

JTrea81

By JTrea81
in Orioles Talk

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BaltimoreFan Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

BaltimoreFan

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Sorry this is a few pages back, but...

According to wikipedia, the television market that is Baltimore is actually 22nd, larger than Pittsburgh, Portland, and Indianapolis. But it is close to those markets in any event.

What this sort of assesment doesn't take into account at all is that the Orioles' media market includes more than just the Baltimore market - which doesn't include most of Montgomery or PG county as well as parts of Howard. And this is to say nothing of DC itself, parts of NoVA, south-central PA, Delaware, etc.

I'm all for the O's being a Baltimore team - road uni's and all - but they have media revenue well beyond a team like the Pirates because the Baltimore-Washington market - even shared with the Nationals - is much larger and more complicated than the simplified media-market ranking (be it 26 or 22) suggests.

This, of course, isn't to sidetrack the whole discussion. And I definitely see your point in terms of the current attendance - though that's a bit of a chicken/egg problem - attendance being so tied to on the field performance.

Right, a significant chunk of the O's fan base comes from Montgomery County.

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Mark Carver All-Star

Mark Carver

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Drungo was right, the market is 26th...

Sorry this is a few pages back, but...

According to wikipedia, the television market that is Baltimore is actually 22nd, larger than Pittsburgh, Portland, and Indianapolis. But it is close to those markets in any event.

What this sort of assesment doesn't take into account at all is that the Orioles' media market includes more than just the Baltimore market - which doesn't include most of Montgomery or PG county as well as parts of Howard. And this is to say nothing of DC itself, parts of NoVA, south-central PA, Delaware, etc.

24 Charlotte, NC 1,122,860 0.981

25 Indianapolis, IN 1,114,970 0.974

26 Baltimore, MD 1,102,080 0.963

27 Raleigh-Durham (Fayetteville), NC 1,080,680 0.944

28 San Diego, CA 1,066,680 0.932

As of September 22, 2008

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rooster AA

rooster

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You actually do know. It is a public company.

The Baltimore Orioles is private.

There you go. The budget is none of our business. Yet I remain flummoxed as to why so many are so committed to a multi-millionaire's frugality. We should want Angelos to overpay on everyone & everything so long as we [fans] don't unreasonably pay for everyone & everything. Just another example of the Stockholm Syndrome PA has seemed to engendered. 12 years going on 13... [ellipses]

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RShack Hangout Grand Counsel

RShack

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Drungo was right, the market is 26th...

As of September 22, 2008

There is no one single Right Answer about this. Various rankings measure different things and use different data sources. What are they counting? People? Households? Households with TV's? Households that subscribe to Cable/Sat? Radios? What? The rankings change depending on what you're counting.

Often, Baltimore and DC are considered one market, much like SF/OAK/SJ are. When looked at that way, it's the 4th largest one, behind NY, LA, and CHI, and in front of SF/OAJ/SJ.

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Mad Mark All-Star

Mad Mark

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Right, a significant chunk of the O's fan base comes from Montgomery County.

It used to. Six years ago, I'm a geographical outlier among Orioles fans, but I was not driving past another team's stadium to get to OPaCY. Now, I'm not only a geographical outlier, I'm a cultural outlier...an Orioles fan in Northern Virginia.

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bigbird Major Leaguer

bigbird

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I'm certainly fine with giving Duquette credit for allowing Joe to draft to Wieters and Arrieta. However, MacPhail is the guy who stepped in at the last second and closed the deal with Boras to get Wieters signed, so he has to get some credit.

Also, I'm fine with avoiding Boras guys unless they are a can't miss guy or a guy the Orioles really, really covet. I'm completely on board with taking players who have agents you can deal with and not have to worry about getting shelled. When a team drafts a premium guy like Wieters, they expect to pay premium, but when you have a half dozen guys who think they are premium guys but most agree they are not, that's when it's smart to avoid the Boras guys.

And I'll disagree here with respect. Again it's my understanding that PGA got involved and closed the deals with Boras. I was actually told AM was ready to let him walk.

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ejf1025 Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

ejf1025

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And I'll disagree here with respect. Again it's my understanding that PGA got involved and closed the deals with Boras. I was actually told AM was ready to let him walk.

Well...no offense, but you were also told Tex would sign here.

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bigbird Major Leaguer

bigbird

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It's only debatable if you have a closed, slanted view against MacPhail or have a one-sided blind opinion that things just don't move fast enough.

The minor league system is better, we have young, premium talent on the major league roster, we have broken through the international market, especially in Japan, we have better Dominican facilities, and for once, we have a plan that has not be deviated from.

I give Beattie credit for signing Joe Jordan, I give Duquette/Flanny credit for signing Huff, acquiring Guthrie for nothing, and allowing Jordan to do his thing, and pretty much everything else that is good right now I give credit to MacPhail.

Let's don't forget AM was given the green light to trade the likes of Bedard and Tejada when those before were denied. I give credit to AM for the bounty for those deals as well as the International market but those young talents with the exception of Jones were Orioles before AM got here.

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BaltimoreFan Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

BaltimoreFan

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It used to. Six years ago, I'm a geographical outlier among Orioles fans, but I was not driving past another team's stadium to get to OPaCY. Now, I'm not only a geographical outlier, I'm a cultural outlier...an Orioles fan in Northern Virginia.

NoVa is completely different than MoCo.

Montgomery County residents, as much as they are DCers, have a connection to the state of Maryland, and thus the Orioles; with the Nats being so bad, very few have jumped ship.

When the O's were good, Montgomery County fans accounted for a huge percentage of the overall fan base, but with the Orioles being so bad as of late, you have MoCo followers detracting at the same rate as local Baltimoreans, which is why you see less black and orange in DC as well as Baltimore.

There was a definite base in NoVa, but really, they're in a different state, and it takes an hour and a half to get to Baltimore from Falls Church, so when the Nats came it was much easier to sever any ties.

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Agent0 AAA

Agent0

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It's only debatable if you have a closed, slanted view against MacPhail or have a one-sided blind opinion that things just don't move fast enough.

The minor league system is better, we have young, premium talent on the major league roster, we have broken through the international market, especially in Japan, we have better Dominican facilities, and for once, we have a plan that has not be deviated from.

I give Beattie credit for signing Joe Jordan, I give Duquette/Flanny credit for signing Huff, acquiring Guthrie for nothing, and allowing Jordan to do his thing, and pretty much everything else that is good right now I give credit to MacPhail.

I think it's a little of everything.

AM obviously knows what he's doing...more than Flanny did...however, it's also obvious that PA has allowed AM to rebuild while it seems that he thought it was better to tread water under the previous regime.

..and I don't see how you can't give Duq/Flanny credit for Arrieta and Weiters. These deals are negotiated before the draft. Even if AM did sign them, the others drafted them and did a lot of the dirty work ahead of time. We don't know if AM would have drafted them at all. We really don't.

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