MacPhail's frugality is hurting this team

[DrungoHazewood]

Perhaps the Orioles don't have as much cash laying around as you suspect, and the Orioles are just living within a reasonable budget.

He thinks that Angelos and the O's should spend ahead of revenues, basically incur more debt to sign more players, on the assumption that winning and revenues will follow.

I agree that teams can do a limited amount of this. But JTrea won't be satisfied until they're spending 100% of his best-case estimates of how much money Angelos has filling his gold-plated swimming pools.

[i_miss_cal]

My question in all of this insanity is simple. The draft is pretty much a crap shoot every year with a few exceptions. So why not trust the guys who judge talent for a living. This is all Jordan does, its his life and I think that he has been successful for this organization so far. We won't know for 6 to 7 years how good this draft was, so why is there such a fuss when the draft is not ever over with yet and nobody has even signed a contract?

[Cokeman]

Being frugal and smartly using limited resources are two different things. The Pirates are frugal. They only sign cheap players, don’t extend their own good players, don’t sign free agents, and trade their expensive players.

We have shown that we’ll re-sign our young veterans, pay for premium young talent (Wieters, Arrieta, Bundy etc.) and are getting into the international market.

All of this while opening an academy in the DR, and increasing scouting in Asia. I’m not really sure what your beef is.

Save money while you can, and spend it wisely. I’d like to see an example of the organization being frugal other than the Hobgood pick, which is debatably about the money issue.

This just isn't true...they swooped in and signed Jeromy Burnitz right out from under us a few years ago...bless their hearts!

[Shopay]

Yes, this is true...but its easy to say that if you don't think the player will be there.(btw, i do believe they would have taken Ackley..just saying..)

This is true. But I doubt the O's (Jordan et al.) are going to tell a kid this type of information in hopes he will repeat it to the media so and they can in turn use it as a defense to assertions of being cheap. The O's would have drafted Ackley, if available.

[DrungoHazewood]

Given the Orioles earnings, they are not spending anything close to what they could. He's got a valid point.

You mean "given guesstimates of their earnings before taxes, depreciation, and amortization they might not be spending 100% of what's possible."

[byrdz]

I actually don't know.

Nor do I feel that I am owed the need to know. If a business supplies a product or series of products that you support, and you feel they are not living up to their end of the service (Ie JTrea thinking the O's are being cheap etc), then as a consumer we have many other choices to turn to.

I couldn't care less what Home Depot does with the 400 dollars I spent on Sheet Rock last month.

People who invest through stocks and what not do care though. I think JTrea's logic is that since he pays for MASN and some tickets that's enough investment that he should have a say so in how they spend it. If a share holder didn't like what he saw in the company he owned a part of he would just sell the shares and move on. Maybe that's what JTrea should do.

[Mark Carver]

This just isn't true...they swooped in and signed Jeromy Burnitz right out from under us a few years ago...bless their hearts!

:clap3::clap3::clap3::clap3::clap3:

[Mizerooskie]

It must have slipped my memory, but how much did "frugal" Andy McPhail offer Tex?

[Wind Rider]

You mean "given guesstimates of their earnings before taxes, depreciation, and amortization they might not be spending 100% of what's possible."

More like they might not be spending 50% of what's possible. I submit they could afford a 120 million payroll. What do you say they could afford? Do you think its only the 50 or so they are headed for.

[Fairfax Bird]

Ever since Andy MacPhail took over, the Orioles have regressed back to the days pre-Duquette in terms of spending on the club in all aspects.

Yet the Orioles revenue has kept increasing as far as MASN profits and revenue sharing, even as the attendance has been decreasing. However articles have shown despite the decrease in attendance, the Orioles remain one of the leagues most profitable teams before revenue sharing and MASN profits are even taken into account.

Since MacPhail took over the payroll has dropped overall and while our scouting and development have increased as far as outreach and effort, the budget seems to be about the same, or even less in terms of the amateur draft than when Duquette and Flanagan were in charge.

This year the Orioles will spend the least amount on the draft since Joe Jordan's first in 2005 as it appears now. Last year the Orioles spent $7.3 million. This year, it is going to be $5 million or less IMO.

The Orioles have also avoided all Boras clients in these two drafts under MacPhail unlike the draft held in 2007, when Boras clients were specifically targeted.

I find it interesting MacPhail said the Orioles are willing to sign premium draft talent with large bonuses, yet Jordan doesn't take anybody that would sign for much above slot with his picks. It's kind of easy to say that when you don't have to do it. And don't tell me Jordan only liked cheap players. I find that really hard to believe.

In the international scouting arena, while the Orioles are kicking the tires on Sano, they aren't expected to be serious players for him or any other top Latin talent. MacPhail has said he'd rather see Stockstill search for needles in a haystack than to go out and buy a package of needles when it comes to scouting top Latin talent.

The question is if we aren't willing to spend on top FA talent, top draft talent, or top international amateur talent, what are we spending this money on? Where is the money going that MacPhail is saving and why is he saving it?

Orioles fans deserve the right to know!

Crazy, crazy for feeling so lonely .... I'm crazy, crazy for feeling so blue ... thsi thread just made me want to sing.

[Malike]

People who invest through stocks and what not do care though. I think JTrea's logic is that since he pays for MASN and some tickets that's enough investment that he should have a say so in how they spend it. If a share holder didn't like what he saw in the company he owned a part of he would just sell the shares and move on. Maybe that's what JTrea should do.

I get all of this, honestly. But much like investing in a company to reap profits, if you are invested in the Orioles, the "profit" you hope to gain is a winning product. As you said, if you feel that your investment is not paying off, cut bait and move on. MacPhail has always been very up front about the direction of the organization and the reasons that they have been making the decisions they make.

[Hank Scorpio]

Every year in mid June & mid December, JTrea loses his mind.

He sort of climbs back into reality for awhile, only to regress badly whenever the Orioles pass up a chance to pee away lots of money for talent they believe isn't worth it.

He is an interesting bird.

[Mizerooskie]

More like they might not be spending 50% of what's possible. I submit they could afford a 120 million payroll. What do you say they could afford? Do you think its only the 50 or so they are headed for.

And what evidence do you have to back up this submission?

[WebLink21]

The Orioles have also avoided all Boras clients in these two drafts under MacPhail unlike the draft held in 2007, when Boras clients were specifically targeted.

I am sorry if this was covered in this thread, but I could not make it through this post before I commented. I said this in the draft forum yesterday, but I guess it has made it's way to this forum as well. Just because someone says they "heard" that we will avoid Boras clients does not make it so. Did you not read the comments from Hobgood yesterday that said he was called an hour before the draft to let him know that he would be taken at #5 as long as Ackley was not still on the board? Ackley is a Boras client! We were going to take Ackley if he was there. What more do you need? Did we directly lie to the kid? We are not avoiding Boras clients and the person the relayed that yesterday has seemed to have it out for McPhail since he took over. It is so frustrating when people post these "theories" on here and casual fans take that as truthful. Why not just say that Angelos ran in and told Jordan to draft Hobgood. So frustrating!

[Wind Rider]

And what evidence do you have to back up this submission?

The Forbes information, check out 2008, our earnings and payroll.