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How come the Blue Jays can be competitive and the Orioles can't?


keysersose

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To call the Blue Jays "competative" is a little strong; they have averaged 18.5 or so games out over the past eight years. The Orioles averaged around 27, so I'm not saying we have been better, but they haven't been exactly an equal partner in the division.

So, let me get this straight, to call the Jays competitive is a little strong because they have finished 18+ games out over the past 8 years.

Got it. No problem.

We have averaged 27 games out, so you can't call us competitive either.

Got it. No argument.

But still, one can read comments on OH, (one that I am thinking of is not sourced to you specifically BTerp), that suggest that last year we were legitimate contenders for a good chunk of the season.

Huh?

This latter suggestion is simply laughable if you ask me, when you take everything into account.

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Actually, we signed a free-agent catcher, a first baseman, traded for a reliever and a starter, and brought up a highly-touted rookie outfieder.

Plus, last time I checked we were still on pace to score an above-average number of runs for the season with this "failure" of an offense.

But let's not let facts get in the way of a good ignorace-filled bash-fest.

Hernandez

Millar

Hawkins

Benson

WOW, the Four Horseman of the Apocolypse.

I guess if we are to beleive your tone, the O's should be playing about .600 ball, since their amazing offseason collection hasn't missed a day due to injury.

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Then go with them if you think that highly of their moves.

No, I'll stay here and complain about the O's until they show me someting.

Personally, I would rather not see the Orioles risk their future on highly-paid mediocre players, but that's just the sensible part of me.

Glaus, Overbay, Burnett, BJ Ryan... really overrated. :rolleyes: Last year you were singing the praises of BJ Ryan and now he is overrated? :confused:

Didn't we offer him a million more a year? The same amount many think could have brought us Delgado?

Oooooo... a million. Konerko can probably find a million under his seat cushions. It's gonna take a lot more than a million to lure a player away from the team he just won a World Series with.

Or are you covering YOUR "A" because the Orioles actually tried, but you won't give THEM credit for it.

I will say they tried when they sign good players. So far they have not.

Yeah, but you are apparently a Blue Jays fan now, so what does it matter?

You should be ashamed of that remark!

You should be ashamed for bringing up things that make you sound like you are cowering under a table in a tinfoil hat afraid of the Evil BoogyAngelos coming after you.

Why should I be ashamed of stating my opinion of a team that has had 8 losing seasons in a row and during that time, been one of the worst run organizations in professional sports?

Some people claim that I'M not realistic. At least I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

Neither am I. I'm just pointing out the facts. And when they aren't facts -- they are about as close to FACT as you can get.

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When comparing the Orioles with the team they've been chasing for 8 years, how come they can put together better teams? The Blue Jays aren't a big market, they're not even in the USA.

I don't know if they have their own TV network (a la YES and NESN), but Toronto now has the entire country of Canada as their market. Let's move 'em to the US to compete for fans/advertising dollars/etc with the other 29 teams in the majors.

Yeah, hockey may be the national sport of Canada, but no one can deny that the Blue Jays have a huge market to draw from.

It seems their gambles are more calculated and successful. AJ Burnett? He's worth a 2.2 mil gamble. Considering Bruse Chen is making 50% more.

They answer, I beleive, lies with Flannagan. Angelos gave him 72 million to spend, and he spent unwisely.

Sean and others have already addressed this, but -- $2.2 million for Burnett?!? Where did you get that number?

how many players who failed on the 2005 team are on this team?

Rotation: Chen, RLo, DCab, Bedard

'Pen: Todd Williams and Chris Ray (and he was only up for a couple months last year)

Hitters: Brian, Melvin, Miggy, Jay, Javy, Luis Matos, Chris Gomez, David Newhan

(Did I miss anyone?)

I don't know if all of them actually classified as "failures" in 2005 -- after all, Miggy/Melvin/Brian all made the Al-Star team and had good years. But that's up to someone else to debate that issue.

8 years is relevant so is 7 ,6,5 and 4. A player dtafted into the organization 8 years ago, should be a productive major leaguer by know. Same for a player drafted 7, 6 & 5 years ago. A 1st round dtaft choice with a little college should be on the team now.

I'm not that astute on the drafts and the minors, but for the most part our drafts 8,7,6,5,4 years ago have largely been busts. Who was the GM and/or Director of Minor Leage Development and/or Director of Scouting 8,7,6,5,4 years ago? It wasn't Flanagan, Stockstill, and Jordan. I'm giving these guys a chance. The kids that they have drafted have got to start making the jump soon -- and start producing.

Witchy

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I don't know if they have their own TV network (a la YES and NESN), but Toronto now has the entire country of Canada as their market. Let's move 'em to the US to compete for fans/advertising dollars/etc with the other 29 teams in the majors.

Yeah, hockey may be the national sport of Canada, but no one can deny that the Blue Jays have a huge market to draw from.

They do have their own network, although I'm not sure if it is a team-owned network... I think it's TSN.

And I don't know how you can say that the entire country of Canada is a market for Toronto. I can assure you that not many people from BC are going to go to Toronto games. They're probably Mariners fans because they're closer.

That said, Toronto did have a great run in the early 90's. The strike killed it for them, and then the BJ's weren't good for a while. With winning (and we still don't know how the "new and improved" BJ's will do) they will get more fans. I think it is a good market. But as with any market, a team must win to have good attendence.

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Why is Toronoto on the cusp of being competitive with the Yankees and Red Sox and the Orioles struggle?

It's called a farm system. We should get one some day.

Vernon Wells

Alex Rios

Roy Halladay

All probably All Stars this year. And they TRADED for both Glaus and Overbay. The Orioles would have been hard challenged to do that.

Blame Angelos all you want for "only" offering Konerko and Gurerro a million or two more than the teams they signed with. Open your eyes. The real problem has been our scouting and drafting for the past ten years.

Angelos might have had input on Wade Townsend (however Chris Nelson is hardly tearing it up), but he doesn't really meddle that much in foriegn signings or 2-10 round draft picks.

You BUILD a team through the farm system.

You FINISH it with free agent signings.

Not vice versa.

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Why is Toronoto on the cusp of being competitive with the Yankees and Red Sox and the Orioles struggle?

It's called a farm system. We should get one some day.

Vernon Wells

Alex Rios

Roy Halladay

All probably All Stars this year. And they TRADED for both Glaus and Overbay. The Orioles would have been hard challenged to do that.

Blame Angelos all you want for "only" offering Konerko and Gurerro a million or two more than the teams they signed with. Open your eyes. The real problem has been our scouting and drafting for the past ten years.

Angelos might have had input on Wade Townsend (however Chris Nelson is hardly tearing it up), but he doesn't really meddle that much in foriegn signings or 2-10 round draft picks.

You BUILD a team through the farm system.

You FINISH it with free agent signings.

Not vice versa.

I agree.

In 5 years we could be reaping the benefits from our improved farm system, however I still have no faith that the O's will fill in the holes with good FA's.

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They do have their own network, although I'm not sure if it is a team-owned network... I think it's TSN.

And I don't know how you can say that the entire country of Canada is a market for Toronto. I can assure you that not many people from BC are going to go to Toronto games. They're probably Mariners fans because they're closer.

MLB defines the markets, and yes, Toronto gets the TV revnues from all of Canada.

Other oddities in the markets include New York and Seattle splitting all of Japan. Anaheim has the rights to (I believe) all broadcasts in Spanish-speaking countries.

Expect Toronto to continue to spend money and start making some noise in the East.

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MLB defines the markets, and yes, Toronto gets the TV revnues from all of Canada.

Other oddities in the markets include New York and Seattle splitting all of Japan. Anaheim has the rights to (I believe) all broadcasts in Spanish-speaking countries.

Expect Toronto to continue to spend money and start making some noise in the East.

I think now would be a good time for me to throw in my stock quote about hating monopolies. Few problems in baseball couldn't be solved with a healthy dose of competition. It would certainly keep Bud and his minons from weaving these Machiavellian schemes.

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Then why didn't they offer him more? I mean... did they really think that Konerko would leave the WS champs for what are pennies to you and me?

To be fair to the Orioles, they beat the offer to Konerko by 1 million a year.

They offered him a contract that was 1-2 years longer and 20 million more than they should have.

Konerko said he geniunely thought about coming here but chose to stay where he wanted to be all along.

The Orioles did make a good effort for Konerko. The problem is, they should have made the same effort for other players who were much better.

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The Orioles are going to have to overspend to get players like Konerko to come here. That's the bottom line. So if they offered "the better deal" it still wasn't good enough. Playing for a winner has to be worth the difference between the two deals.

Well they were willing to overspend for Konerko who is not worth the contract he got or the one we offered.

But i get your point. If they truly wanted him, they should have offered him 5/70 to get it done. I am glad they didn't, as he is not worth that but still, to get what you want(if you are the O's), you have to offer more.

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