How come the Blue Jays can be competitive and the Orioles can't?

[Bird_Man]

Toronto is big market.

It more than twice Baltimore.

Wikipedia lists it as 5th largest metropolitan area in North America (Which includes Mexico City which doesn't even factor in to this discussion).

[Birds of B'more]

MLB defines the markets, and yes, Toronto gets the TV revnues from all of Canada.

Other oddities in the markets include New York and Seattle splitting all of Japan. Anaheim has the rights to (I believe) all broadcasts in Spanish-speaking countries.

Expect Toronto to continue to spend money and start making some noise in the East.

Wha-wha-what?!?! And here I thought the economics of baseball were messed up before I read that post. Are you serious? The Angels own the broadcast rights to all of Latin America? Who in the hell decided that is how it would work? Did Arte Moreno pay an enormous sum of money to the other owners for these rights? What happens if MLB eventually expands/relocates to Mexico like they considered w/the Expos? Will they have to negotiate with Moreno like they did PA? And why do Seattle and NY get to keep all of the broadcast money from Japan just because of Ichiro and Matsui? The money from foreign markets should be divided evenly..........although I'd be willing to concede all of Canada to Toronto.

[NewMarketSean]

Yes, Toronto is a huge city. I've never been there, but I've heard it rivals NYC in it's grandness. That said it is still a Canadian city and baseball is America's past-time. There is going to be fall off. Plus the Skydome is pushing 20 years and isn't the "new and trendy" place to go in Toronto anymore.

They are a huge market, yes, and they may get a big TV deal, but I still don't see them being able to compete with the NYY and the Red Sox anytime soon.

If the Canadian Dollar surpasses the US Dollar, which could happen sooner than we expect, then we could be seeing something like this take place. But not until then.

It's a Canadian city... it's an American sport.

[Birds of B'more]

Yes, Toronto is a huge city. I've never been there, but I've heard it rivals NYC in it's grandness. That said it is still a Canadian city and baseball is America's past-time. There is going to be fall off. Plus the Skydome is pushing 20 years and isn't the "new and trendy" place to go in Toronto anymore.

They are a huge market, yes, and they may get a big TV deal, but I still don't see them being able to compete with the NYY and the Red Sox anytime soon.

If the Canadian Dollar surpasses the US Dollar, which could happen sooner than we expect, then we could be seeing something like this take place. But not until then.

It's a Canadian city... it's an American sport.

I also believe Canadian sports franchises get hit with taxes much harder than their American counterparts.

[howie14]

For those still wondering about the Blue Jays TV network, they're on Rogers SportsNet. Yes, the same cable company which now has its name on the former Skydome. Rogers bought majority interest in the team six years ago and has allowed Ricciardi to tear down then rebuild the team entirely.

Rogers SportsNet is like a national version of CSN. It carries the ESPN games on Sunday night and a lot of Mariners games on the West Coast feed. It also picks up a lot of other games such as YES network broadcast when the Jays aren't playing.

TSN, their version of ESPN, used to show about 10 Jays games a year. I don't think they do anymore.

Anyway, this is a situation where the team didn't start its own RSN; it was bought into one.

[NewMarketSean]

For those still wondering about the Blue Jays TV network, they're on Rogers SportsNet. Yes, the same cable company which now has its name on the former Skydome. Rogers bought majority interest in the team six years ago and has allowed Ricciardi to tear down then rebuild the team entirely.

Rogers SportsNet is like a national version of CSN. It carries the ESPN games on Sunday night and a lot of Mariners games on the West Coast feed. It also picks up a lot of other games such as YES network broadcast when the Jays aren't playing.

TSN, their version of ESPN, used to show about 10 Jays games a year. I don't think they do anymore.

Anyway, this is a situation where the team didn't start its own RSN; it was bought into one.

Funny... the BJ's land a huge TV deal and they start spending immediately.

The O's land a huge TV deal and they cut payroll.

[RShack]

Wha-wha-what?!?! And here I thought the economics of baseball were messed up before I read that post. Are you serious? The Angels own the broadcast rights to all of Latin America? Who in the hell decided that is how it would work? ... And why do Seattle and NY get to keep all of the broadcast money from Japan just because of Ichiro and Matsui? The money from foreign markets should be divided evenly...

No kidding. How-and-when did this happen? Does anyone know?

[Bird_Man]

The point is that the Blue Jays do have some economic advantages over the Orioles.

But I certainly don't want to make excuses for PA.

[NewMarketSean]

The point is that the Blue Jays do have some economic advantages over the Orioles.

But I certainly don't want to make excuses for PA.

Yeah but when it all evens out the BJ's are probably closer to the O's financial situation than the Red Sox or the Yankees.

[Mackus]

But i get your point. If they truly wanted him, they should have offered him 5/70 to get it done. I am glad they didn't, as he is not worth that but still, to get what you want(if you are the O's), you have to offer more.

The story we got was that the Orioles were ready to increase their offer, but Konerko and his people told them that he made the decision to stay in Chicago so he wouldn't have to uproot his family. He basically asked the Orioles to stop tempting him with more money.

Flanagan also described Konerko as the most genuine free agent he'd ever dealt with, so he clearly was interested in coming here, but decided not to move his family.

[howie14]

Funny... the BJ's land a huge TV deal and they start spending immediately.

The O's land a huge TV deal and they cut payroll.

To be fair, the Orioles don't have a huge TV deal until next year and the deal will probably lose money until the Comcast issues are settled. If Comcast worms its way into the deal to the extent I fear, the Orioles may not make much more than the current deal off of the RSN at all. Still, the point is well taken.

Yeah but when it all evens out the BJ's are probably closer to the O's financial situation than the Red Sox or the Yankees.

Also true. Interestingly, the Jays were owned previously by Labatt's Breweries. You would think they would have deep pockets as well, but once that early '90s team was broken up, they didn't spend maney at all.

[mikezpen]

Actually, we signed a free-agent catcher, a first baseman, traded for a reliever and a starter, and brought up a highly-touted rookie outfieder.

Actaully, that's not much of anything. Hernandez is a good player but not a 4th or 5th place hitter. The "highly-touted rookie outfielder" coming up here was not part of any "plan". He made the team out of ST and has flopped since.The first basemen (Millar? Conine?) are cheap bench material who represent no improvement. They traded for a starting pitcher who isn't even .500 lifetime. WOW.In other words, the Orioles addressed none of their crying needs-a number one starter and middle-of-the-order hitting.

Plus, last time I checked we were still on pace to score an above-average number of runs for the season with this "failure" of an offense.

The offense is a failure now, it will be moreso when the season ends. The Orioles' hitting is carried by a few guys-same as it was last year.Take a few of them away or bring on a slump, and the weaknesses of this undermanned, cheaply-assembled roster are exposed. Since the injuries hit some key people and they can't carry of team anymore, the offense HAS been a failure.What are we since Roberts went down, 3-8?

Personally, I would rather not see the Orioles risk their future on highly-paid mediocre players, but that's just the sensible part of me.

No, apparently you'd rather see them sign microscopically-paid submediocre players as you eagerly await the World Champion Orioles of 2027.

As for Konerko, he was never coming here.And I think that's exactly why they could make that offer. If they'd seriously wanted to spend that kind of money on the team, they would have done it after they failed to get Konerko.They could have certainly signed better people than Millar and Conine or traded for them. Instead, they did nothing.

And what's up with this talk of being ashamed? I'm ashamed of nothing. The O's should be ashamed of not giving their fans a better product.

SO TRUE SO TRUE SO TRUE SO TRUE SO TRUE.

[badboydrake]

So, I am still kinda confused, are we mad because Toronto has been in third place instead of fourth for the last 8 years, or because they are in third place, instead of fourth now:confused:

[howie14]

So, I am still kinda confused, are we mad because Toronto has been in third place instead of fourth for the last 8 years, or because they are in third place, instead of fourth now:confused:

I don't think there is actually an "official" OH reason for anger. :002_sbiggrin: I'm guessing the point behind this is that these were two teams who appeared to both be spinning wheels behing the division leader and now one of them, the "Not-Orioles", seems to actually have a rebuilding plan.

[camdenyardblues]

Neither am I. I'm just pointing out the facts. And when they aren't facts -- they are about as close to FACT as you can get.

What are the "facts" that Konerko bid was just a rouse? Like I said before, this theory could maybe make sense if this rouse was somehow leveraged later on. And even that isn't really conclusive evidence.