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How come the Blue Jays can be competitive and the Orioles can't?


keysersose

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I don't think there is actually an "official" OH reason for anger. :002_sbiggrin: I'm guessing the point behind this is that these were two teams who appeared to both be spinning wheels behing the division leader and now one of them, the "Not-Orioles", seems to actually have a rebuilding plan.

Close, but not quite.

The TOR guy has "new owner disease", which means he's writing big checks in an effort to buy a championship now. That's not "rebuilding", that's just buying people. Most new owners do that for a year or two. Then they learn.

The O's are the one with the rebuilding plan. A bunch of OH folks recognize that. But another bunch of OH folks only talk about wanting the O's to rebuild. What they really want is for the O's to buy people. Among the latter group, improvements to the team that don't cost $50million are largely ignored. They're mad because the team isn't littering OPACY with $50million contracts.

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Close, but not quite.

The TOR guy has "new owner disease", which means he's writing big checks in an effort to buy a championship now. That's not "rebuilding", that's just buying people. Most new owners do that for a year or two. Then they learn.

The O's are the one with the rebuilding plan. A bunch of OH folks recognize that. But another bunch of OH folks only talk about wanting the O's to rebuild. What they really want is for the O's to buy people. Among the latter group, improvements to the team that don't cost $50million are largely ignored. They're mad because the team isn't littering OPACY with $50million contracts.

You should do your whole acronym post schtick again, that was seriously one of my personal top 5 posts ever...lol

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Close, but not quite.

The TOR guy has "new owner disease", which means he's writing big checks in an effort to buy a championship now. That's not "rebuilding", that's just buying people. Most new owners do that for a year or two. Then they learn.

The O's are the one with the rebuilding plan. A bunch of OH folks recognize that. But another bunch of OH folks only talk about wanting the O's to rebuild. What they really want is for the O's to buy people. Among the latter group, improvements to the team that don't cost $50million are largely ignored. They're mad because the team isn't littering OPACY with $50million contracts.

I do agree with this theory. It's a shame that Angelos "never learned."

But as people have been saying, TOR might be able to compete financially with the Yanks and Sox due to their new TV deals, owners, etc... However I don't know if this is the case.

And for the record, I'd rather have an owner with "new owners disease" than have an owner who is spinning his wheels. Because it worked in FLA, LAA, and in BOS.

Just because you are grooming players through the farm system doesn't mean that FA goes away. FA is as important as grooming players and PGA hasn't realized that.

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Close, but not quite.

The TOR guy has "new owner disease", which means he's writing big checks in an effort to buy a championship now. That's not "rebuilding", that's just buying people. Most new owners do that for a year or two. Then they learn.

Rogers Communications bought the Blue Jays for $120M in 2000.

Source

The TOR guy has waited 6 years for "new owner disease" to take hold of him?? :confused:

Witchy

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Why is Toronoto on the cusp of being competitive with the Yankees and Red Sox and the Orioles struggle?

It's called a farm system. We should get one some day.

Vernon Wells

Alex Rios

Roy Halladay

All probably All Stars this year. And they TRADED for both Glaus and Overbay. The Orioles would have been hard challenged to do that.

Blame Angelos all you want for "only" offering Konerko and Gurerro a million or two more than the teams they signed with. Open your eyes. The real problem has been our scouting and drafting for the past ten years.

Angelos might have had input on Wade Townsend (however Chris Nelson is hardly tearing it up), but he doesn't really meddle that much in foriegn signings or 2-10 round draft picks.

You BUILD a team through the farm system.

You FINISH it with free agent signings.

Not vice versa.

That's what I was about to say. Not that BJ's farm system has been fantastic but it's been better than the O's. Besides Wells, Halladay, and Rios, the BJ's farm system has also produced Chacin and Hudson (who was used to get Glaus. And Russ Adams and Aaron may develop into quality players. I also seem to remember that the Jay's touted many blue chip prospects who have turned to be busts. Felipe Lopez, Cesar Izturis, Jose Cruz Jr and John Ford-Griffin (the later two were originally drafted by the Jays) come to mind.

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The TOR guy has waited 6 years for "new owner disease" to take hold of him?? :confused:

Witchy

I think something happened within the corporation, such that a new guy is calling the shots. So, maybe not "new owner" on paper, but still a new guy with a new expensive toy.

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I think something happened within the corporation, such that a new guy is calling the shots. So, maybe not "new owner" on paper, but still a new guy with a new expensive toy.

The reason why the Jays are spending a lot is because the team is receiving a huge influx of revenue through the stadium renaming deal. It's not necessarily a new management mindset.

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The TOR guy has waited 6 years for "new owner disease" to take hold of him?? :confused:Witchy

Plus, new guys vary a little bit. Some jump in and do it right away. Others sit on it for a couple years until they delude themselves into thinking that they know what they're doing. PA bought the team in 93 (I think), and he waited a while before he tried to buy a flag.

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Funny... the BJ's land a huge TV deal and they start spending immediately.

The O's land a huge TV deal and they cut payroll.

:confused::confused::confused:

A pennt saved is a penny in angelos' pocket. He bought the team and he's entitled to milk it for every last cent. He doesn't owe Baltimore or Orioles baseball fans a thing. Something he knows very well.

There are 2 things that Orioles fans can hope for, luck and prayer.

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I do agree with this theory. It's a shame that Angelos "never learned."....

Angelos learned:

-That the fans are stupid

-That they turned on him when the team started losing no matter that he spent money

-That the fans are stupid

-That he could make money off the stupid fans even without putting out for a decent team

-That "rebuilding" could be an excuse for a decade

-That he could use the Orioles and the fans misfortune of being located close to DC to his advantage and gain

-That the fans are stupid

-That old big-names can make stupid fans buy tickets

-That Yankee and Red Sox money is still green

-That the fans are stupid

He learned A LOT!

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(He learned that)-That they turned on him when the team started losing no matter that he spent money

That fact is huge. Angelos changed his entire mind-set. So in mid-2000 we had a watershed event. That's when the Orioles did a salary dump for a lot of third-rate prospects (except for a luck-out with Melvin Mora). Angelos decided that it was no use spending a lot of money because it wasn't appreciated, plus he realized he couldn't buy a title, plus he knew he could make money even if attendance dropped. There were tons of gullible fans and the Baltimore sports media had all the backbone of a jellyfish.

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I don't think so. I think it's too many years of a dry farm system. Who is the last top prospect we've included in a trade?

But, I believe John Maine, Nate Spears, Mike Fontenot, and Denny Bautista were “top 15 Orioles prospects at the time of these transactions

1/21/06 Benson, Kris Acquired from the Mets for Jorge Julio & John Maine

1/9/06 Patterson, Corey Acquired from the Cubs for Nate Spears and Carlos Perez

2/2/05 Sosa, Sammy Acquired from the Cubs with cash for Jerry Hairston Jr., Mike Fontenot, & Dave Crouthers

6/21/04 Grimsley, Jason Acquired from the Royals for Denny Bautista

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The reason why the Jays are spending a lot is because the team is receiving a huge influx of revenue through the stadium renaming deal. It's not necessarily a new management mindset.

Of course, that money just went from one pocket to the other since the corporate name on the stadium belongs to the corporation which also owns the team.

I think what actually happened was that Rogers hired Ricciardi to clear out the deadwood and then loosened the pursestrings. That loosening does correspond with the decision to place the "Rogers" name on Skydome, though. I don't know how much Rogers Communications "paid" the Blue Jays, but it may have been enough to increase the operating budget.

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The Orioles are going to have to overspend to get players like Konerko to come here. That's the bottom line. So if they offered "the better deal" it still wasn't good enough. Playing for a winner has to be worth the difference between the two deals.

I've been preaching that since the start of the off-season. The O's are in the "beggars can't be choosers" position. With MAYBE the exception of Mazzone, money is the only reason right now that a blue chip free agent would come here. It would be absolutely necessary to take a hit to the bottom line for a few years in order to get this franchise righted. Look what Moreno did for the Angels! Lowered concession prices, ticket prices, free parking, etc. Sure the first few years were a struggle, but now they look to be stable and perennially competitive. I'm not going to pretend to fully understand the financial/economic ramifications of something like that, but I have to believe it's feasible. They're playing in a ballpark orginally built in the 1960's (renovated in the late 90's) while we've got what many still refer to as the nicest ballpark in baseball. The Blue Jays bought into the old adage, "You have to spend money to make money" this off-season. I believe it was a WAY more risky endeavor in Toronto than it would be here in Baltimore because I think we'd be more patient as fans and ANY significant improvement would rejuvenate interest in the Orioles.

Hopefully something dramatic like that is on the horizon for our club. Here's wishing that Markakis, Penn, and Loewen become our Wells, Rios, and Halladay!

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