MacPhail on Hobgood

[McNulty]

I very clearly remember Mel Kiper and other "draft experts" blasting the Seahawks for drafting Lofa Tatupu "way too high", and then he made the Pro Bowl.

Repeatedly, Jordan and MacPhail have come out and said that they liked this kid the best, and took him FOR THAT VERY REASON. AM even had to come out today with a post DIRECTED at people like Sly to refute the signability claims and assurtions.

To continue reading into this pick as a "signability" issue takes an extreme bias and lack of rational thought. Its the only way to reach such conclusions.

[Frobby]

How do you know they read the board? Did someone post here?

Yeah, uh... Matt's Uncle & Mom, apparently.

Frob :

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1796506&postcount=274

Thanks! And welcome to the Hobgood family!

[Hank Scorpio]

Thanks! And welcome to the Hobgood family!

Pretty cool, huh?

[JTrea81]

To continue reading into this pick as a "signability" issue takes an extreme bias and lack of rational thought. Its the only way to reach such conclusions.

Please CC me when you e-mail those writers that said Hobgood was drafted as a signablity pick telling them they are extremely biased against Andy MacPhail and they lack rational thought.

I'd like to see their responses to that...

This organization is percieved as cheap, and until MacPhail starts proving otherwise, we will continue to be percieved in that way. We are not spending as much as we can to improve our baseball team. And maybe we don't have to, but why conserve resources when you have them to spend? Conserving resources when the draft and international signings are concerned when smaller market teams like Oakland and Tampa Bay spend more than you do consistantly, just doesn't make sense seeing as you aren't spending it on FAs which they can't afford to do.

And don't even get me started on the ST situation. Seriously, how many major league teams do you know have a tent outdoors setup as the weight room?

It wasn't just the Hobgood pick that is seen as "cheap". It was the fact Jordan passed over Max Stassi only to get an another catcher not rated as high in the first round. It's that he passed over Ian Krol, both of which who were drafted by Oakland and are considered signable. All of this leans toward Jordan not having a big enough budget to draft the BPA, and that is simply unnacceptable.

You hear all about Jordan wanting Hobgood, but why did he pass on Stassi and Krol among others?

[Lucky Jim]

The publications and myself think they could have but chose to go for a more signable player.

If you have no first hand knowledge, no scouting ability, and no information outside of the "publications" that "think" the O's could've gotten someone better, than this isn't really accurate.

The publications think (and I choose to blindly follow them) that the Orioles could have but chose to go for a more signable player.

There. I fixed it for you.

[McNulty]

Please CC me when you e-mail those writers that said Hobgood was drafted as a signablity pick telling them they are extremely biased against Andy MacPhail and they lack rational thought.

I'd like to see their responses to that...

This organization is percieved as cheap, and until MacPhail starts proving otherwise, we will continue to be percieved in that way. We are not spending as much as we can to improve our baseball team. And maybe we don't have to, but why conserve resources when you have them to spend? Conserving resources when the draft and international signings are concerned when smaller market teams like Oakland and Tampa Bay spend more than you do consistantly, just doesn't make sense seeing as you aren't spending it on FAs which they can't afford to do.

It wasn't just the Hobgood pick that is seen as "cheap". It was the fact Jordan passed over Max Stassi only to get an another catcher not rated as high in the first round. It's that he passed over Ian Krol, both of which who were drafted by Oakland and are considered signable. All of this leans toward Jordan not having a big enough budget to draft the BPA, and that is simply unnacceptable.

You hear all about Jordan wanting Hobgood, but why did he pass on Stassi and Krol among others?

Krol has a real tight commitment. And maybe he didn't like Stassi.

Once again, do you scout people for a living? Dude, you wouldn't even know Stassi if you ran into him on the street. It only leans towards "not having a big enough budget" if you are biased to that viewpoint and predisposed to seeing things that way already, like you clearly are.

For the last time, Jordan is one of the best in the business. He picked who he wanted, said so while articulating as to why he liked each one of those players.

You can keep leaping to conclusions. You can keep refusing to listen to everyone on this board tell you that you are doing so. However, we'd all prefer it if you would just keep that to yourself BECAUSE ITS RIDICULOUS.

Once again, I go back to my Lofa Tatupu scenario. They liked the player, and took him. GIVE IT A REST.

[J.D.]

Please CC me when you e-mail those writers that said Hobgood was drafted as a signablity pick telling them they are extremely biased against Andy MacPhail and they lack rational thought.

I'd like to see their responses to that...

This organization is percieved as cheap, and until MacPhail starts proving otherwise, we will continue to be percieved in that way. We are not spending as much as we can to improve our baseball team. And maybe we don't have to, but why conserve resources when you have them to spend? Conserving resources when the draft and international signings are concerned when smaller market teams like Oakland and Tampa Bay spend more than you do consistantly, just doesn't make sense seeing as you aren't spending it on FAs which they can't afford to do.

And don't even get me started on the ST situation. Seriously, how many major league teams do you know have a tent outdoors setup as the weight room?

It wasn't just the Hobgood pick that is seen as "cheap". It was the fact Jordan passed over Max Stassi only to get an another catcher not rated as high in the first round. It's that he passed over Ian Krol, both of which who were drafted by Oakland and are considered signable. All of this leans toward Jordan not having a big enough budget to draft the BPA, and that is simply unnacceptable.

You hear all about Jordan wanting Hobgood, but why did he pass on Stassi and Krol among others?

Who's we? Did you fracture off split personalities?

If you're not upset about the Hobgood pick, then do me a favor. STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT IT!!! All we were talking about here is Hobgood. If you have an issue with the other guys, I'm sure there are plenty of other threads around to do it in.

Again, like everything else in the draft, you don't know what kind of scouting the O's got on Stassi and Krol. Maybe there was something there that they didn't like. Maybe they had other guys rated higher. I know, heaven forbid, they didn't follow the JTrea draft board, but I HEAR that these guys are pretty good.

This organization is perceived as being cheap by YOU. And YOU didn't perceive them as cheap until they missed on Teixeira. Before that, you found other, different reasons to bash the front office.

I still find it hilarious that, even BEFORE everyone gets signed, you're dead certain that Oakland and Tampa spent more than us on the draft, AND that somehow that means that they drafted better. That's a joke.

[BaltimoreFan]

JTrea just thinks that to win, you have to have the best players. Because we're not Boston/New York and can't binge every single offseason, our most viable route to contention is through building the minors. Instead of bringing in the "singable" guys, according to JTrea, we should be going all-out with our bonuses in the draft and international signing as it is a cheap way to build a strong core.

From there, we can spend within our limits on free agent acquisitions; ponying up when needed for guys like Tex and holding back when we are mostly set.

That theory is fine, but what he either fails to realize, at least in this specific situation, is that the O's may actually view the cheaper player as the better future pitcher, irrespective of what Baseball America says.

Because JTrea is just a white guy who looks up numbers on a computer, all he has at his disposal is a few tidbits here and there from a handful of writers every few days. Conversely, Joe Jordan and his scouts probably looked at the top five high school pitchers harder and longer than any other crew in baseball and, via their assessment, Hobgood was the best all around package.

Simply having the most electric stuff according to one publication does not make you the best prospect. These high schools pitchers are 18, and are far from finished projects. Intangibles like poise and determination actually do make for better long-term prospects, believe it or not.

[JTrea81]

Who's we? Did you fracture off split personalities?

If you're not upset about the Hobgood pick, then do me a favor. STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT IT!!! All we were talking about here is Hobgood. If you have an issue with the other guys, I'm sure there are plenty of other threads around to do it in.

Again, like everything else in the draft, you don't know what kind of scouting the O's got on Stassi and Krol. Maybe there was something there that they didn't like. Maybe they had other guys rated higher. I know, heaven forbid, they didn't follow the JTrea draft board, but I HEAR that these guys are pretty good.

This organization is perceived as being cheap by YOU. And YOU didn't perceive them as cheap until they missed on Teixeira. Before that, you found other, different reasons to bash the front office.

I still find it hilarious that, even BEFORE everyone gets signed, you're dead certain that Oakland and Tampa spent more than us on the draft, AND that somehow that means that they drafted better. That's a joke.

I was upset by the MacPhail comments, and then was called an "embarassment to the board" when I responded, so of course I am going to defend myself. Keep piling on though even though this isn't your battle.

BTW Oakland drafted Grant Green, Max Stassi and Ian Krol. And Tampa drafted Luke Bailey and Jeff Malm. All those players will likely take well above slot money to sign. I don't see the Orioles spending more than those two clubs when most of the picks we have wil sign for slot or only for slightly above. We'll see though...

[Moose Milligan]

I was upset by the MacPhail comments, and then was called an "embarassment to the board" when I responded, so of course I am going to defend myself. Keep piling on though even though this isn't your battle.

BTW Oakland drafted Grant Green, Max Stassi and Ian Krol. And Tampa drafted Luke Bailey and Jeff Malm. All those players will likely take well above slot money to sign. I don't see the Orioles spending more than those two clubs when most of the picks we have wil sign for slot or only for slightly above. We'll see though...

Trea, please answer.

In a day and age where everyones reigning in spending and trying to stick to a budget (not just in MLB, but along all lines) what is your beef with paying more than slot? Why do you WANT the Orioles to draft guys that are perceived to take more than slot to sign?

[JTrea81]

Trea, please answer.

In a day and age where everyones reigning in spending and trying to stick to a budget (not just in MLB, but along all lines) what is your beef with paying more than slot? Why do you WANT the Orioles to draft guys that are perceived to take more than slot to sign?

Because that is what Tampa Bay and Oakland do. And we have more resources than them. It's what Boston and New York also do.

And all the other teams in the division spend lots of $ in international amateur bonuses.

So if the teams in our division are doing this, and we are trying to beat these teams, shouldn't we be doing the same?

If FAs don't want to come here, we obviously aren't going to be able to spend money on them. So shouldn't we be taking that money and spending more in the draft and international signings than our rivals, or at least equal?

It's great Joe Jordan has a keen eye for talent. But if there is a package of needles in front of you why spend time and money looking for them in a haystack when you can just buy the needles?

[Moose Milligan]

Because that is what Tampa Bay and Oakland do. And we have more resources than them. It's what Boston and New York also do.

And all the other teams in the division spend lots of $ in international amateur bonuses.

So if the teams in our division are doing this, and we are trying to beat these teams, shouldn't we be doing the same?

First of all, get it out of your head right now. We're not the Yankees and we're not the Sox. Never have been, never will be.

Second, show me where Tampa and Oakland routinely pay over slot to sign picks. I'm not looking for an example here or there, I want you to show me where they make a habit out of it on a yearly basis for multiple picks.

[JJLinn29]

I very clearly remember Mel Kiper and other "draft experts" blasting the Seahawks for drafting Lofa Tatupu "way too high", and then he made the Pro Bowl.

Repeatedly, Jordan and MacPhail have come out and said that they liked this kid the best, and took him FOR THAT VERY REASON. AM even had to come out today with a post DIRECTED at people like Sly to refute the signability claims and assurtions.

To continue reading into this pick as a "signability" issue takes an extreme bias and lack of rational thought. Its the only way to reach such conclusions.

Same thing happened in 2008 with Jerod Mayo...was considered a reach, dude was a beast. The Pats did the same with Logan Mankins in 2005. The list goes on and on.

I'm convinced that even if Hobgood was a carbon copy of Strasburg without the hype, this "thing" referred to as JTrea would think he sucks because he A) doesn't have a greedy agent and B) isn't seeking a well above slot bonus.

The videos I've seen of him make it hard to not like the pick. He touches 94-95 and has a nasty hook. He's not all about money though, so I guess he really does suck.

[Frobby]

This organization is percieved as cheap, and until MacPhail starts proving otherwise, we will continue to be percieved in that way.

Honestly, I could care less how you think we are "perceived." The team was in the top 10 in terms of signing bonuses paid each of the last two years, and our farm system is now ranked in the top 10 after several consecutive good drafts. By my count, in 2009-10 the system will have sent 9 good prospects to the majors, at least (Wieters, Reimold, Snyder, Bergesen, Berken, Hernandez, Tillman, Matusz). That's outstanding by any measure.

[Moose Milligan]

Honestly, I could care less how you think we are "perceived." The team was in the top 10 in terms of signing bonuses paid each of the last two years, and our farm system is now ranked in the top 10 after several consecutive good drafts. By my count, in 2009-10 the system will have sent 9 good prospects to the majors, at least (Wieters, Reimold, Snyder, Bergesen, Berken, Hernandez, Tillman, Matusz). That's outstanding by any measure.

Too bad your measure and his aren't the same.