MacPhail on Hobgood

[QBsILLEST1]

But what place are we in our division? How many teams are better than us?

We can't just be outstanding. We have to be unreal if we are going to have all homegrown talent without major premium FA acquisitions.

Premium talent alone will win this division. The Orioles can't get enough into their system, and we certainly can't afford to pass on any in the draft for $ reasons.

And with the graduation of Wieters and Reimold to the majors, our system is no longer top 10.

Anyway, this thread has turned into another "attack JTrea" thread because I said something contrary to the "MacPhail knows all" mantra. Moose I haven't forgotten about your post and I'll elaborate in another thread, but I've got to gather the info all together first and I didn't want this thread to continue down this path...

The graduation of Wieters and Reimold do not make us fall outside of the top 10 minor league systems in baseball. Even though the both of them are off our top prospects list, the development and progression of best prospects make our system possibly even stronger than last year. Last year we had the #1 guy and then 2 in the 20's and Arrieta was back around 60. Now, both Tillman and Matusz may be top 10 guys in all of baseball(Tillman almost definately). Arrieta will probably be around the top 25 as well. Our 2nd tier pitchers also will be making moves on to the top 100 lists(Britton and Erbe) as long as Erbe returns strong from this rehab assignment. Hobgood will be another one of our top pitching prospects to throw into the mix. Unless the Big3 graduate, I see no way we fall out of the top 10, we may even wind up top 5, dont forget, we arent the only ones who are graduating top prospects this year......

Same thing happened in 2008 with Jerod Mayo...was considered a reach, dude was a beast. The Pats did the same with Logan Mankins in 2005. The list goes on and on.

I'm convinced that even if Hobgood was a carbon copy of Strasburg without the hype, this "thing" referred to as JTrea would think he sucks because he A) doesn't have a greedy agent and B) isn't seeking a well above slot bonus.

The videos I've seen of him make it hard to not like the pick. He touches 94-95 and has a nasty hook. He's not all about money though, so I guess he really does suck.

Ive heard most recently that he sits around 94-95 touching 97 with nasty movement. And a possible future plus plus curve, dudes gonna be nasty.....

[JTrea81]

I would like to know the answer to this too. Interesting how he has responded to every other post but this one.

See the MLB forum.

[waroriole]

See the MLB forum.

Yeah I saw it. Funny that you didn't mention '07 where the O's gave $7.7M in signing bonuses, the most in MLB.

[JTrea81]

Yeah I saw it. Funny that you didn't mention '07 where the O's gave $7.7M in signing bonuses, the most in MLB.

And how much did we spend on international talent? We have never given out a six figure bonus to international amateurs. And the Orioles spent only slightly more than $7 million in 2008 on the draft and it looks like we will spend even less than $6 million in 2009.

Our draft expenditures are decreasing since MacPhail took charge as well as the payroll. That is a fact. And before somebody mentions the down economy, the economy wasn't in recession until the very end of the 2008 season. And even then Peter Angelos had said money was not an issue for this club before going into FA.

It remains to be seen if we will take that money we didn't spend in FA or the draft and use it for international signings. I highly doubt that we will.

[Shopay]

I didn't realize one had to be a scout on here to have a valid opinion. Unfortunately I have a job and can't afford the time nor the money to fly around the country to look at these kids and I rely on the reports of others who can. That's why they are paid to do what they do.

Could Joe Jordan be right and everybody else be wrong? Yes it's possible, but there's also a possiblity that Jordan could be wrong as well. And that idea is just blasphemy around here.

Look at Smoak/Posey/Beckham vs. Matusz for instance. You now couldn't trade Matusz to get any of those guys straight up.

As I've said before, just because the Orioles do something, doesn't mean that it is right. And people have the right to question them.

I don't know if the bolded statement is true or not, and frankly, I doubt you know either. Morevover, I really don't care about that right now. If your statement is true three to five years from now, when presumably all these players will be well into their pro careers, then I will care.

[waroriole]

And how much did we spend on international talent? We have never given out a six figure bonus to international amateurs. And the Orioles spent only slightly more than $7 million in 2008 on the draft and will spend even less than $6 million in 2009.

Our draft expenditures are decreasing since MacPhail took charge as well as the payroll. That is a fact. And before somebody mentions the down economy, the economy wasn't in recession until the very end of the 2008 season. And even then Peter Angelos had said money was not an issue for this club before going into FA.

It remains to be seen if we will take that money we didn't spend in FA or the draft and use it for international signings. I highly doubt that we will.

One of the reasons you catch so much crap on this board is b/c you state opinions as facts. You have no idea how much money we will spend on the draft. Furthermore, you have no idea if that money will be spent more wisely than the A's or Rays. You don't know how much money AM has to spend b/c you haven't seen the books. You speculate that MASN makes tons of money, but ignore the fact that WAS is a drain on MASN. Despite this mountain of information that you don't have, you continue to speak on these subjects as though you are an authority just because you read one article that you think supports your conclusion. However, alot of times the article you refer to does not state the point you think it does.

As far as the "money that we didn't spend on FA" goes, there is a simple explanation. AM said that we were not going to buy any FA's this year. However, if Tex was open to coming to BAL (which he wasn't) then we would deviate from the plan. So, when he didn't sign here, it was not in our plans to use that money for something else.

As far as the draft expenditures dwindling since AM took over, that is just a perfect example of speaking in half-truths. It's similar to what someone like Rush Limbaugh would do. Yes, they have come down since AM took over. But, what you don't mention is that in 07 we spent 7.7M on the draft, the most in MLB. You gotta think that the number is going to come down from that the following year. Second, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT WE WILL SPEND ON THE DRAFT THIS YEAR. Therefore, you only have one year to say that the draft spending has come down.

I don't expect you to respond to this post (at least not in any detail), but I hope you read it and take the time to think about how you come across on this board. People don't take your opinions seriously b/c you have an agenda, which is showing that the O's are cheap. Learn to present both sides of the argument and you will have much more credibility.

[QBsILLEST1]

And how much did we spend on international talent? We have never given out a six figure bonus to international amateurs. And the Orioles spent only slightly more than $7 million in 2008 on the draft and will spend even less than $6 million in 2009.

Our draft expenditures are decreasing since MacPhail took charge as well as the payroll. That is a fact. And before somebody mentions the down economy, the economy wasn't in recession until the very end of the 2008 season. And even then Peter Angelos had said money was not an issue for this club before going into FA.

It remains to be seen if we will take that money we didn't spend in FA or the draft and use it for international signings. I highly doubt that we will.

Who told you there was no recession until the end of the 08 season? That was when they declared it a recession, the recession officially began in December of 07 if I remember correctly. It takes longevity of a shrinking economy in order for it to be considered a true recession. So basically the entire time MacPhail as been here, the economy has been in recession.

And the international signings, it takes years to get settled in there and to build a rapport with the players in the itnernational places, with scouts and coaches out there. You have to develop a system out there, which MacPhail is doing, but you cannot create a pipeline of international prospects when you havent been out there for but a year or 2 and all the other teams have been out there for years and have been watching the best prospects develop in front of them and already basically have dibs on them. We cannot just step in after 1 year and seriously expect to pry away a top international free agent away from a team that has helped develop the kid since nearly TBall. It takes time, you must be patient.....

Seriously though Trea, I want all of the best players that are available to us just like you do, but what we have to understand that there is another determining factor besides just wanting something. It is MONEY!! Money doesnt grow on trees, the orioles do not have an infinite amount of money, they have a budget as all teams do. So we cannot dish out as much money as it takes to sign every overslot player available, or sign the most expensive free agents, but we do the best with what we have and that is the important thing....

[JTrea81]

Seriously though Trea, I want all of the best players that are available to us just like you do, but what we have to understand that there is another determining factor besides just wanting something. It is MONEY!! Money doesnt grow on trees, the orioles do not have an infinite amount of money, they have a budget as all teams do. So we cannot dish out as much money as it takes to sign every overslot player available, or sign the most expensive free agents, but we do the best with what we have and that is the important thing....

The Orioles have more money than some of you realize, but MacPhail has done a good job making some of you think they don't. I'm not going to be able to convince you but I sure will call them on it when the evidence is there. And I've already pointed out the enormous sum of money that other teams get with merchandising/TV which is distributed equally to each club and revenue sharing. And all of that is before MASN profits come in.

But some choose to disregard the evidence.

I'll believe what you guys are seeing with MacPhail when I actually see him commit club resources to sign premium talent drafted or to sign a premium FA (amateur or MLB) that is in demand by several clubs. I personally don't think you'll see it...

[QBsILLEST1]

I didn't realize one had to be a scout on here to have a valid opinion. Unfortunately I have a job and can't afford the time nor the money to fly around the country to look at these kids and I rely on the reports of others who can. That's why they are paid to do what they do.

Could Joe Jordan be right and everybody else be wrong? Yes it's possible, but there's also a possiblity that Jordan could be wrong as well. And that idea is just blasphemy around here.

Look at Smoak/Posey/Beckham vs. Matusz for instance. You now couldn't trade Matusz to get any of those guys straight up.

As I've said before, just because the Orioles do something, doesn't mean that it is right. And people have the right to question them.

I really do not see how you can say that, but you are probably just ignoring the progression Matusz has made in the minors. I personally wouldnt trade Matusz for any of those guys right now, he could honestly be the 1st ace we have had since Bedard. Beckham is not as valuable as Matusz is IMO, I dont want Posey for 1 I like Matusz's ceiling better and 2 we have Wieters so hed be redundant. Smoak is premium talent, but to me a #1/2 starter is worth more than a GG 1stbaseman with good power and bat, theres almost always more than 1 good 1stbaseman available per free agency year.

If you spent as much time following the actual players on our team than the ones we didnt draft, maybe youd actually be a fan of the orioles.

[Tony-OH]

You can't possibly believe that budget doesn't enter into Joe Jordan's draft process at all. MacPhail definitely gives him a budget to work with and that will limit who he can draft. What I am saying is that I would like to see what Jordan could do without financial constraints.

There is no scouting director in baseball outside of possibly the Yankees that doesn't have a budget to work from.

[QBsILLEST1]

The Orioles have more money than some of you realize, but MacPhail has done a good job making some of you think they don't. I'm not going to be able to convince you but I sure will call them on it when the evidence is there.

But some choose to disregard the evidence.

I'll believe what you guys are seeing with MacPhail when I actually see him commit club resources to sign premium talent he's drafted or to sign a premium FA (amateur or MLB) that is in demand by several clubs.

Who cares if they have more money than we realize. They could be saving up money for a splash in FA that AM has been talking about, we could be ramping up to sign Sano or another international guy. You are turning the game of baseball into some sort of a conspiracy.

What you fail to realize, is that not every ball player has Baltimore at the top of their list of places to play at. 11 years of losing has put a sour taste in folks mouths about this team. That is what we are trying to rid ourselves of, that image that you continue to look for any evidence possible that we are still the same poorly run ball club we were 5 years ago.... That is why it is so tough for us to get premium talent here from FA. I have never heard you say anything complimentary about this team. If you are gonna be the 1st to criticize why is it so impossible to give props to where its due?

[JTrea81]

Who cares if they have more money than we realize. They could be saving up money for a splash in FA that AM has been talking about, we could be ramping up to sign Sano or another international guy. You are turning the game of baseball into some sort of a conspiracy.

What you fail to realize, is that not every ball player has Baltimore at the top of their list of places to play at. 11 years of losing has put a sour taste in folks mouths about this team. That is what we are trying to rid ourselves of, that image that you continue to look for any evidence possible that we are still the same poorly run ball club we were 5 years ago.... That is why it is so tough for us to get premium talent here from FA. I have never heard you say anything complimentary about this team. If you are gonna be the 1st to criticize why is it so impossible to give props to where its due?

Money talks for international signings. Sano's agent has said money will be the determining factor. If we want him we'd better be the highest bidder. And FAs don't want to play here. That's the point. So we'd be best to invest a larger sum of money than other clubs in international talent and the draft. If we aren't going to be able to spend money for MLB FAs, that is the place to spend it, as money usually is the factor in both instead of popularity. And the FA class keeps getting worse and there will be increased competition. If the Orioles are ramping up for something, they are going to be disappointed and will have let other talent that then can acquire through other avenues, slip through their fingers.

We should have had Oakland's draft IMO as far as talent, as we can afford to spend $15 million on bonuses if need be. We don't have to have a budget under $10 million. If we are going to go hog wild in international signings, then that's fine, but I don't think that is going to happen.

I just keep seeing the Orioles' revenue stream increasing and their expenditures decreasing, and that doesn't make sense to me.

[JTrea81]

There is no scouting director in baseball outside of possibly the Yankees that doesn't have a budget to work from.

But why does ours have to be less than Oakland's when it comes to international signings and the draft?

[itsernst]

There's your evidence. MacPhail doesn't want to have to recruit the player to play for the Orioles. Well I'm sorry, but the Orioles especially in the AL East may have to do some actual recruiting to get top talent here. That is MacPhail's job. The Orioles can't sell themselves, even to a HS kid.

There's a reason you have to beg. It's called the player has talent and wants to be compensated for it and would rather get a college education than possibly be stuck on a losing franchise.

Signable does not necessarily = BPA. The Orioles needed to take the BPA and the jury is certainly out if Hobgood was that...

I swear...you never cease to amaze me. Do you just sit in your room kicking puppy dogs all day? You have to be the most negative person I have ever met. The kid is talented; Matzek may have been the top overall HS pitcher, but the staff felt like he wasnt a good fit. Does McPhail tell you that you are flipping the burgers wrong when you are at work?

The bolded part is just ridiculous; Rarely...very rarely will you see a HS kid pass up millions for college, especially if he is a pitcher; The fact is that injuries are a part of the game and to say a pitcher would pass it up millions of dollars (no matter what franchise) to get a college education is a fallacy.

[JTrea81]

I swear...you never cease to amaze me. Do you just sit in your room kicking puppy dogs all day? You have to be the most negative person I have ever met. The kid is talented; Matzek may have been the top overall HS pitcher, but the staff felt like he wasnt a good fit. Does McPhail tell you that you are flipping the burgers wrong when you are at work?

The bolded part is just ridiculous; Rarely...very rarely will you see a HS kid pass up millions for college, especially if he is a pitcher; The fact is that injuries are a part of the game and to say a pitcher would pass it up millions of dollars (no matter what franchise) to get a college education is a fallacy.

What about Gerrit Cole who the Yankees drafted?

And no I don't flip burgers for a living and frankly I find that offensive not because flipping burgers is beneath me, but because you are trying to insult me by saying that people that flip burgers are lesser people. MacPhail is basically like the CEO of the Orioles, and like any CEO who makes the money he does, he is subject to scrutiny.