A's and Rays draft and amateur international signing expenditures

[JTrea81]

For Moose, I decided to do some digging and show that teams like the A's and Rays have been investing in the draft and international signings more than the Orioles. The A's just like the Orioles have just started spending more, but unlike the Orioles, they've continue to ramp up their spending and will likely outspend the Orioles again in draft and amateur bonus signings. The Rays have shown a willingess to go over slot for the BPA, and aren't shy about giving out large bonuses to Latin talent.

Take these past two drafts and the 2008 International signing period for example:

Oakland A's

2009 Draft: Will likely have to go significantly overslot for Grant Green, Max Stassi, Ian Krol and Sam Dyson

2008 Draft: Went significantly overslot for 7th rounder Brett Hunter ($1.1 million), 10th rounder Rashun Dixon ($600,000) and 28th rounder Dusty Coleman ($675,000)

2008 International Signings - Signed P Michel Ynoa to a record $4.25 million bonus. The A's first started spending in 2007 when they spent $100,000 or more on three Latin amateurs for the first time in club history,

A great article from BA explains the change in philosophy:

Owens said the A's commitment to spend more money in on Latin American players began in October. The team held what Owens termed a "summit meeting," and general manager Billy Beane and the rest of the organization decided to be more aggressive internationally

...

"Our scouts have done a tremendous job of creating players on a shoestring budget before," Owens said. "We've had success, but for now we want to make a commitment, and the genesis in Latin America for us is Inoa."

Tampa Bay Rays:

2009 Draft: Will likely have to go overslot to sign Luke Bailey and Jeff Malm

2008 Draft: Went overslot to sign 1st rounder Tim Beckham ($6.15 million) and 2nd rounder Kyle Lobstein ($1.5 million)

2008 International Signings - The Rays gave four players bonuses in excess of $100,000 with the largest going to 16 yr old Dominican SS Julian Morillo ($210,000)

[McNulty]

Wow, you really proved your point. Well done.

[waroriole]

Maybe as a comparison you could show what the O's did in that timeframe.

[TyCobb]

"significantly overslot " means nothing to me. How about you get the totals for each draft?

[Hank Scorpio]

Maybe as a comparison you could show what the O's did in that timeframe.

Hey, that's novel.

I mean, it IS a comparison.

[tywright]

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1810660&postcount=24

This year [2008], the Orioles signed 36 of 50 draft picks (and five nondrafted free agents) for a total of $6.9 million in bonuses, the 10th-highest in the majors. They would have been in the top seven had they signed a couple of high school pitchers - including Gaithersburg High’s Kevin Brady - who decided at last week’s deadline to attend college.

Last year[2007], the Orioles’ $7.7 million in signing bonuses was the most spent in the league. According to Baseball America, in the previous four years, the Orioles didn’t crack the top 10 and were last in 2004.

2009 - Dalles ($150M equal to Zagone)

2008 - Matusz ($3.2MM), Avery ($900M), Bundy ($600M* highest in 8th rd), Hoes ($490M), Hudson ($287M), Miclat ($225M), Zagone ($150M), Joseph ($125M), Drake ($100M* 43rd rd)

2007 - Wieters ($6.0MM), Arrieta ($1.1MM* highest in 5th rd), Bascom ($200M), Mahoney ($100M), Angle ($110M)

2007 Ranking of Teams based on total signing bonuses

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/118851

[waroriole]

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1810660&postcount=24

2009 - Dalles ($150M equal to Zagone)

2008 - Matusz ($3.2MM), Avery ($900M), Bundy ($600M* highest in 8th rd), Hoes ($490M), Hudson ($287M), Miclat ($225M), Zagone ($150M), Joseph ($125M)

2007 - Wieters ($6.0MM), Arrieta ($1.1MM* highest in 5th rd), Bascom ($200M), Mahoney ($100M), Angle ($110M)

2007 Ranking of Teams based on total signing bonuses

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/118851

Just as we all thought. I predict that he will now ignore the draft money spent, and concentrate solely on international signings.

[JTrea81]

Just as we all thought. I predict that he will now ignore the draft money spent, and concentrate solely on international signings.

MacPhail did not oversee the 2007 draft and a budget was probably already set by Duquette and Flanagan so throw that out the window. The 2007 draft can be brought up over and over again, but MacPhail had little to do with that. It was all Jordan, Duquette and Flanagan and Peter Angelos.

2008 and 2009 are the two drafts and international signing periods that should be looked at as those are the ones that MacPhail has had the opportunity to set a budget for and install his philosophy.

We likely won't hit the $6 million mark in 2009 based on the players taken and how few overslot players that were drafted and where they were drafted from what I can see. And we've never given out a six figure bonus during the international signing period.

I should also mention that three out of the four players that the Rays signed for six figures in 2008 were from Venezuela, a country the Orioles don't even have a camp set up for yet. With Melvin Mora on the team as a possible ambassador, you would think Venezuela operations would be a priority.

[TyCobb]

From that link...

Over the 3 year period the O's spent 16.9 million, the Rays 15.6 million, and the A's 10.3 million.

[Orioles West]

From that link...

Over the 3 year period the O's spent 16.9 million, the Rays 15.6 million, and the A's 10.3 million.

Facts can be fun.

A's fans should be rioting in the streets!

-Don

[Lefty0315]

MacPhail did not oversee the 2007 draft and a budget was probably already set by Duquette and Flanagan so throw that out the window. The 2007 draft can be brought up over and over again, but MacPhail had little to do with that. It was all Jordan, Duquette and Flanagan and Peter Angelos.

2008 and 2009 are the two drafts and international signing periods that should be looked at as those are the ones that MacPhail has had the opportunity to set a budget for and install his philosophy.

We likely won't hit the $6 million mark in 2009 based on the players taken and how few overslot players that were drafted and where they were drafted from what I can see. And we've never given out a six figure bonus during the international signing period.

I should also mention that three out of the four players that the Rays signed for six figures in 2008 were from Venezuela, a country the Orioles don't even have a camp set up for yet. With Melvin Mora on the team as a possible ambassador, you would think Venezuela operations would be a priority.

The Orioles had very little presence in the DR until MacPhail came. Now they have enough players for a team and a half. I think there will be at least one six digit bonus given out this year. The Orioles were in Venezuela but they left just like most other orginization due to political turmoil.

[tywright]

MacPhail did not oversee the 2007 draft and a budget was probably already set by Duquette and Flanagan so throw that out the window. The 2007 draft can be brought up over and over again, but MacPhail had little to do with that. It was all Jordan, Duquette and Flanagan and Peter Angelos.

2008 and 2009 are the two drafts and international signing periods that should be looked at as those are the ones that MacPhail has had the opportunity to set a budget for and install his philosophy.

We likely won't hit the $6 million mark in 2009 based on the players taken and how few overslot players that were drafted and where they were drafted from what I can see. And we've never given out a six figure bonus during the international signing period.

I should also mention that three out of the four players that the Rays signed for six figures in 2008 were from Venezuela, a country the Orioles don't even have a camp set up for yet. With Melvin Mora on the team as a possible ambassador, you would think Venezuela operations would be a priority.

Berry is going to cost us a lot, as well as a gamble like Coffey.

[glenn__davis]

The Orioles had very little presence in the DR until MacPhail came. Now they have enough players for a team and a half. I think there will be at least one six digit bonus given out this year. The Orioles were in Venezuela but they left just like most other orginization due to political turmoil.

Yeah, it'll be very interesting to see what happens during the international period this year. I definitely give the FO a pass as they get things set up a little more down there, but at some point they need to start getting some talent from there.

I'm a little confused about what's going on in Venezuela. I know during the WBC they had said that the Astros had recently pulled out and that they were the last team to do so. But it seems as though players had been signed from there as recently as last year. So I'm not really sure what's happening there. It doesn't seem like the O's have any imminent plans to return there right now, though.

[JTrea81]

From that link...

Over the 3 year period the O's spent 16.9 million, the Rays 15.6 million, and the A's 10.3 million.

I'm looking at last year and this year. The A's have had a recent change in philosophy starting with the 2008 draft. And as you can see this year, they did not shy away from players with signability issues.

The Orioles had a watershed year under Duquette and Flanagan. It seemed the checkbook was open, the Orioles were aggressive in FA and the draft, not shying away from paying top dollar. There was no smoke and mirrors. Granted the results weren't all positive, but the Orioles weren't afraid to spend.

Now it seems under Andy MacPhail, the Orioles are much more hesitant to spend in general, even more so than teams like Tampa and Oakland, because MacPhail is adverse to taking risks, and spending money on fewer premium talent guys rather than spreading it out on lesser talent, is a risk.

So it seems like we've gone from one extreme to the other.

MacPhail has been great at making trades, but when it comes to adding talent in other areas, he leaves a lot to be desired. Duquette was much better at pursuing premium FA talent, and premium talent in general as he was willing to take risks.

The combination of both of those skills would make the perfect GM for the O's and any baseball team really.

[TyCobb]

I'm looking at last year and this year. The A's have had a recent change in philosophy starting with the 2008 draft. And as you can see this year, they did not shy away from players with signability issues.

The Orioles had a watershed year under Duquette and Flanagan. It seemed the checkbook was open, the Orioles were aggressive in FA and the draft, not shying away from paying top dollar. There was no smoke and mirrors. Granted the results weren't all positive, but the Orioles weren't afraid to spend.

Now it seems under Andy MacPhail, the Orioles are much more hesitant to spend in general, even more so than teams like Tampa and Oakland, because MacPhail is adverse to taking risks, and spending money on fewer premium talent guys rather than spreading it out on lesser talent, is a risk.

So it seems like we've gone from one extreme to the other.

MacPhail has been great at making trades, but when it comes to adding talent in other areas, he leaves a lot to be desired. Duquette was much better at pursuing FA talent.

The combination of both of those skills would make the perfect GM for the O's and any baseball team really.

Well I disagree with your opinion on AM. If anything AM will spend extra on drafts because the ROI is much higher for the draft than in FA while spending a fraction of the amount of money.

Duq didn't sign a good FA. What FA do we have besides Huff have Duq signed? Baez was a bad deal and Walker was terrible. I think your been too critical on AM when he really hasn't had a need to sign a FA player yet for this team.