Rosenthal on Sherrill

[mbaldwin]

I love when simple stats prove people wrong:

Month          W   	L   	ERA 	 G      GS      CG      SHO      SV  	 SVO   IP  	 H     R     ER  	  HR  	 HBP 	  BB  	 SO Mar/Apr 	0 	1 	4.66 	10 	0 	0 	0 	4 	5 	9.2 	13 	5 	5 	2 	0 	2 	8May 	   	0 	0 	0.82 	11 	0 	0 	0 	6 	7 	11.0 	5 	1 	1 	1 	0 	5 	13June 	    	0 	0 	0.82 	11 	0 	0 	0 	7 	7 	11.0 	5 	1 	1 	0 	2 	2 	8

In May and June he has been filthy. In June, he had a 0.63 WHIP.

Ok, this proves me wrong. He's absolutely dominant. Hopefully we can get something for him and he can go be someone else's "Closer"

[mbaldwin]

Mariano=Dominant Papelbon=Dominant Hoffman=Dominant KRod=Dominant Sherrill=Poor man's closer

[Crazysilver03]

Ok, this proves me wrong. He's absolutely dominant. Hopefully we can get something for him and he can go be someone else's "Closer"

Mariano=Dominant Papelbon=Dominant Hoffman=Dominant KRod=Dominant Sherrill=Poor man's closer

Want to pick a side there buddy?

[mbaldwin]

Oh, I picked my side along time ago. Just being realistic.. Drink the Orange kool-aid, just not all of it.. Go O's

[bluedog]

Marlins fan living in Baltimore here...

We've been hearing the same rumors so I thought I would mention a couple of things from our prospective.

While it is true that Coghlan was originally a third baseman and moved to second base because his power numbers were so poor, it is doubted by many that he has the range or the arm to be a defensive shortstop. It sounds like many people here know the Marlins system pretty well (I'm impressed), but since the O's just played the Fish in a three game set, perhaps some of what I'm about to say will become apparent.

The starting third baseman Emilio Bonifacio is terrible and perhaps one of the worst starting 3B in baseball, offensive or defensive. The Marlins have been patiently waiting for him to break out and nothing has happened. The theory is that Gaby Sanchez will be recalled to replace him in the not too distant future, which leads many of us to think that if the Marlins saw Coghlan as a third baseman, the Marlins would have been trying him there instead of teaching him LF, where he has virtually no experience.

Dan Uggla, outside of a decent home run tally, has been mediocre this season offensively. He's also entering his fourth season and is becoming expensive, meaning that his days in Florida are likely numbered (possibly even before season's end). The Marlins most likely foresee Coghlan as being Dan Uggla's replacement at second base.

The only other players on the 25 man roster I see the Marlins willing to deal are either Jeremy Hermida or Cody Ross, but I can't quite see the use the Orioles would have for them.

The Marlins' closer Matt Lindstrom has been struggling this season (now injured) and Beinfest appears determined to find an inexpensive, yet experienced closer to solidify the bull pen. I'm certain that Sherrill is highly coveted.

If Melvin Mora weren't struggling, I'd also imagine that Beinfest would give him more of a look this season to replace Bonifacio in the case that Sanchez is considered not ready or does not perform. Of course this hasn't been rumored but the Marlins have been shopping for third basemen and were rumored to be looking at De Rosa.

How about Wigginton & Sherrill to the Fish for young players with the O's eating most or all of both players salary? Seems to fill two huge needs for Florida while providing enough value that the O's should be able to pry away some real quality young talent in return.

Also opens up playing time for Salazar with the O's so we can give him a real look the rest of the season.

[hoosiers]

How about Wigginton & Sherrill to the Fish for young players with the O's eating most or all of both players salary? Seems to fill two huge needs for Florida while providing enough value that the O's should be able to pry away some real quality young talent in return.

Also opens up playing time for Salazar with the O's so we can give him a real look the rest of the season.

I think this is where some discussions in this message board are heading.

It's typical AM to focus on someone like Coghlan in order to extract a heavier price when the deal moves to include other names.

Excluding Coghlan, I expect the Marlins would have to include one of Sanchez/Morrison and a couple additional quality prospects.

[bluedog]

I think this is where some discussions in this message board are heading.

It's typical AM to focus on someone like Coghlan in order to extract a heavier price when the deal moves to include other names.

Excluding Coghlan, I expect the Marlins would have to include one of Sanchez/Morrison and a couple additional quality prospects.

Good points.

I don't see AM moving people just to move them. Unless he's able to extract real quality in a deal for guys like Sherrill, I think he holds onto them.

[threedaysrest]

Mariano=Dominant Papelbon=Dominant Hoffman=Dominant KRod=Dominant Sherrill=Poor man's closer

Stats and results don't lie, baldwin. Try learning about statistics and then review George Sherrill's; they poke all manner of holes into the stuff you're spouting here.

[nadecir]

The problem in terms of a contender trading for George Sherrill is this: he is a much better pitcher in the first half of the season versus the second half of the season throughout his career.

Sherrill's career splits before the all-star break show a 2.90 ERA with a 1.145 WHIP. After the all-star break, he has a career ERA of 4.90 with a 1.444 WHIP. Sherrill's been consistent; every season in his career in the majors Sherrill has pitched better in the first half than the second half.

I think general managers around the league will question whether Sherrill can really be a big help in the bullpen come September and October when they will really need him given these splits.

[Spoonless]

Papelbon: 20/22SV 1.80ERA 35IP 7ER 1.34WHIP .671OPSA 8.74K/9 2.00K/BB

Sherrill: 17/20SV 2.51ERA 32.1IP 9ER 1.14WHIP .628OPSA 8.63K/9 2.58K/BB

I'd say that they're pretty comparable so far this season.

[RVAbird]

Coghlan would be an excellent target, IMO.

I think his offensive skills are way underrated. His plate discipline is exceptional - he boasts a career 154/147 BB/K ratio. He has walked more than he has struck out over his entire professional and college career.

I have little doubt in his ability to be a ~.300/~.380 AVG/OBP hitter in the big leagues. I've posted a little bit lately about how OBP is sometimes very difficult to translate to the major leagues, but the most reliable indicators are guys who have managed a high OBP via excellent plate discipline rather than being pitched around due to big power numbers despite high K rates.

Pending reports on his defense at 3rd (I'm admittedly clueless here) I think he would be very good value for Sherrill, who I really like but am not willing to pay 4-5 Mios. for.

[JeffConine19]

While Wigginton would be an improvement over Bonifacio, his struggles this season would lead me to think that the Marlins would rather give Gaby Sanchez a look. If he were putting up numbers similar to 2008 (.876 OPS!), I think the Marlins would be biting on him. I could foresee Wigginton as a replacement for Wes Helms, who is struggling worse than Bonifacio is.

Coghlan is not untouchable but the fact that Uggla will be gone soon and Bonifacio is struggling makes the Marlins more hesitant to move him right now.

[mbaldwin]

So you would rather have Sherrill than Papelbon I suppose? Come on, you can't be satisfied!?

[mbaldwin]

Really?.. Pathetic, I guess you just love mediocrity

[Spoonless]

So you would rather have Sherrill than Papelbon I suppose? Come on, you can't be satisfied!?

Who is saying that? I just think that when you look at them this year, they're certainly not as far apart as to proclaim Papelbon as "dominant" and hold Sherrill in such low regard as to say he's "a poor man's closer." You can talk about others "drinking the kool-aid" and how you're "being realistic," but I think you're really undervaluing Sherrill.