The decline in our OF defense is on display

[Tx Oriole]

What's the reason for the decline? And why isn't it being adressed?

Well, maybe it is being addressed. Behind closed doors where it needs to be. Not out in the open to the media.

[ChesterPeake]

Disregarding JTrea's trolling, I return to the point of this thread and say that I would like to see Pie in CF, and Jones in LF, and Reimold at DH, with Luke traded for a good 3B/SS/1B prospect.

I'm starting to believe that Pie is going to make it. If he can produce enough offensively to become a starter, I agree with you that we would have a better OF with Pie in CF and AJ in LF.

I'd hate to see Reimold go to DH so early in his career. I wonder if he could play 1B? Perhaps he'd be willing to play some winter ball at that position to get ready. Does anyone here have a take on Reimold as a First Baseman?

[Three Run Homer]

Facts are facts. Nick has had an enormous decline in his zone rating this year. He isn't getting to balls that he got to in previous years. He has gone from being one of the best defensive RFs in baseball to one of the worst, in the blink of an eye.

Either he's lost a step, or his head isn't in the game and therefore he's getting bad jumps, and/or he's not motivated for whatever reason (big contract, tired of losing).

People make fun of JTrea's theories, but at least he has a theory that's not absurd on the face of it. Others prefer to stick their head in the sand or point to a couple of clutch hits here and there to "prove" that there's no problem with Nick.

But there is a problem.

[wickedwitch]

Facts are facts. Nick has had an enormous decline in his zone rating this year. He isn't getting to balls that he got to in previous years. He has gone from being one of the best defensive RFs in baseball to one of the worst, in the blink of an eye.

Either he's lost a step, or his head isn't in the game and therefore he's getting bad jumps, and/or he's not motivated for whatever reason (big contract, tired of losing).

His positioning might be off, too.

[Bings012]

I know this is baseball, but it's still their job. They have to go out there every single day and perform at a high level. My theory is that some days they simply don't feel like going to work and they might just go through the motions. Everyone knows this is not a winning ballclub, although we believe that it can be, I'm not sure all of the players do, all of the time. Sometimes sure they are probably focused and motivated as much as can be to win a ballgame, but sometimes, probably not as much, they just might not feel like going out there, and go through the motions.

It's all speculation, we can't prove anything. I am going to continue to put my faith in the fact that these guys go out there and try to win every single night, because that is what I believe. They can't make all the plays all of the time though, there is no grey area with this board. Nick is not having a great season in RF statistically, so what, in my mind he is still a great defender, just having some rough luck this year.

[wildcard]

I didn't think that Jones had a chance to catch the short fly. He could have been positioned better maybe but I thought his effort was good.

Nick decided to try to catch the ball that hit the wall instead of positioning to play the ball off the wall. That probably made it a triple instead of a double.

Neither play cost the O's the game IMO. Guthrie giving up two homers to Abreu and the O's inability to score more then two runs where what caused the loss IMO.

[osfan83]

The entire team has been in a funk the past month. We are a more talented team then we are showing in every aspect of the game. Some change has to happen to spark this team. Whether a someone takes over and becomes a vocal leader (do we even have one for godsakes?) or a new head coach (Trembley is average, not bad but not good). This team is talented enough IMO to be .500. They are not playing that way, not even close.

I'm not so sure about this. I just think we have much less talented players. Our outfield right now has below average hitters for their positions and average fielders. 3rd base is well below average, up the middle we are about average, C is well below at this point. Most of the postional players are average or below, and out starters are well below average....this all adds up to a rather poor team talent wise.

[Three Run Homer]

I'm not so sure about this. i just think we have much less talented players. Out outfield right now has below average hitters for their positions and average fielders. 3rd base is well below average, up the middle we are about average, C is well below at this point. Most of the postional players are average or below, and out starters are well below average....this all adds up to a rather poor team talent wise.

Statistically you are correct--our outfield is average at best, when you look at the numbers (offense and defense). That's one reason we're not winning more games.

But the point is, on talent our outfield should be one of the best in baseball, especially now that we have Reimold mashing in LF. Going into this season we thought that Adam Jones was an emerging Gold Glove center fielder and that Nick Markakis was on the verge of being an MVP candidate and Gold Glove winner. Both have played well below expectations in the field, and Markakis has been well below expectations at the plate.

Maybe it's just a slump, or some bad luck, but you can't say that this team lacks talent, at least in the starting lineup. They are underachieving, plain and simple.

[Oriolesfan1988]

Statistically you are correct--our outfield is average at best, when you look at the numbers (offense and defense). That's one reason we're not winning more games.

But the point is, on talent our outfield should be one of the best in baseball, especially now that we have Reimold mashing in LF. Going into this season we thought that Adam Jones was an emerging Gold Glove center fielder and that Nick Markakis was on the verge of being an MVP candidate and Gold Glove winner. Both have played well below expectations in the field, and Markakis has been well below expectations at the plate.

Maybe it's just a slump, or some bad luck, but you can't say that this team lacks talent, at least in the starting lineup. They are underachieving, plain and simple.

I am leaning toward slumps. Players can go in defensive slumps etc..If they continue to do it next year I'd be concerned but right its just possibly a slump.

[osfan83]

Statistically you are correct--our outfield is average at best, when you look at the numbers (offense and defense). That's one reason we're not winning more games.

But the point is, on talent our outfield should be one of the best in baseball, especially now that we have Reimold mashing in LF. Going into this season we thought that Adam Jones was an emerging Gold Glove center fielder and that Nick Markakis was on the verge of being an MVP candidate and Gold Glove winner. Both have played well below expectations in the field, and Markakis has been well below expectations at the plate.

Maybe it's just a slump, or some bad luck, but you can't say that this team lacks talent, at least in the starting lineup. They are underachieving, plain and simple.

Maybe these guys just arn't as good as we thought they were. Maybe they are just a step above Matos and Bigbee, not a giant leap.

[BRobinsonfan]

Uhh, what were the two of them playing for in April?

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Dadaist again.

[tvz1997]

I really don't want to prolong the hijacking of this well-considered thread, but JTrea is not saying anything new or crazy in this thread. He may be carrying his premise a little too far, but the premise isn't crazy:

1. When the team is losing, players tend to get down, some more than others. Roberts seems more susceptible to this than others (as many have pointed out) and Markakis seems to have his moments too. Yes, they played great when the offense was clicking in April and then came the "well, the offense is doing IT'S job" comments and the pitching got a little better and the offense from the top of our lineup fell apart.

2. (Again as mentioned by many others). Losing has taken a toll on Roberts and Markakis - this is because they are human and competitors and not because they're dogging it. Worst case scenarios are far easier to imagine for them as Os because they have lived through them before. That doesn't mean they won't both be clutch players when the tide really starts rising next year.

3. While watching the great comeback, the first comment I made to those watching with me was that the guys who started the turnaround were Pie, Andino, Salazar, Wieters ... not Kakes or Huff or Roberts. It felt to me that the ones who were not here for the 30-3 game had to be the ones to keep playing like they didn't know any better than to believe they could still show something to the Sox and to themselves.

The way Markakis and Roberts responded to that glimmer of hope provided by the newer guys gives me a lot of hope for how this will all play out over the next couple of years. I know this isn't the best analogy, but it's like going out with a girl who has been screwed over a lot in the past. It takes a while for them to believe that bad times can be over in a moment and good times can last.

Markakis will come around and knows that they have some more winners on their way to the bigs. Roberts showed he still has hope for this team when he signed his extension, but it's going to take a while for him to not always fear that things are going to fall apart.

To the topic at hand, I worry about AJ's ability to balance a power-generating body and a center-fielder's body, especially at such a young age. I also wonder if he needs to take a page from the book of Wieters by keeping his hitting in perspective by emphasizing his mental development at a key defensive position. You love to see what AJ did in April and May, but I almost wish that had started to show in another year or two and have him develop as a CFer and all-around ballplayer this year.

Maybe we're just seeing a lot of growing pains right now. As the guys focus on doing things a better way, it's harder for their natural gifts and athleticism to shine through.

[MCL1021]

And once again Trea hijacks another thread with his ridiculous theories.....I can't even read a thread without this happening, it becomes so annoying.

I realize he's not breaking any rules, but when will it stop? It gets people fired up every time...

[Boy Howdy]

Disregarding JTrea's trolling, I return to the point of this thread and say that I would like to see Pie in CF, and Jones in LF, and Reimold at DH, with Luke traded for a good 3B/SS/1B prospect.

I started thinking this way when we heard about Jones' weight gain after bulking up over the off-season.

[Sports Guy]

I have little doubt that Pie is our best defensive CFer.

The idea of Jones in LF, Pie in CF and Nick in RF will give us our best defense in the OF.

I know this won't happen but its the right thing to do.