The decline in our OF defense is on display

[Old#5fan]

Pleeeaaase!!! Give me a break. This is pure idiocy. These guys are playing just as hard as ever. It's baseball.!!! Teams make adjustments, they have to compensate, there are such things as slumps. It's ludicrous to suggest that they aren't playing hard because they have nice contracts.:rolleyestf::rolleyestf::rolleyestf:

To me if a guy's a potential GG outfielder as Jones is and Markakis is mistakenly alleged to be, there is no excuse for a dropoff defensively and getting poor jumps is a lack of focus and nothing else. There is never an excuse for that. This team shows signs of that on the road particularly and it might indicate too much partying is going on during road trips.

This team isn't the 61 Yankees, they are not good enough like Mantle and Ford were to be out partying all night and still play well the next day!

[clapdiddy]

I have little doubt that Pie is our best defensive CFer.

The idea of Jones in LF, Pie in CF and Nick in RF will give us our best defense in the OF.

I know this won't happen but its the right thing to do.

Spot on with all three points here.

[Old#5fan]

Spot on with all three points here.

Although Pie looked terrible early on in LF as if he was lost in space I now think he could very well be the best defensive outfielder on the team, especially if playing CF.

[Sports Guy]

Are we sure Markakis and/or Jones aren't hiding an injury?

Maybe Jones isn't getting to the balls as well because he is still feeling the effects of his hammy injury, the foul ball off his shin, etc....

[Old#5fan]

Are we sure Markakis and/or Jones aren't hiding an injury?

Maybe Jones isn't getting to the balls as well because he is still feeling the effects of his hammy injury, the foul ball off his shin, etc....

That could be so. I thought I saw Jones pull up on a play he was trying to beat out an infield hit the other night. We all know Jones can motor when healthy. NM on the other hand has never had much more than average speed IMO, while Pie can flat out fly.

[Sports Guy]

Although Pie looked terrible early on in LF as if he was lost in space I now think he could very well be the best defensive outfielder on the team, especially if playing CF.

And his bat plays better in CF than LF.

[Sports Guy]

That could be so. I thought I saw Jones pull up on a play he was trying to beat out an infield hit the other night. We all know Jones can motor when healthy. NM on the other hand has never had much more than average speed IMO, while Pie can flat out fly.

Markakis is a very smart and solid OFer...Strong and accurate arm, gets to most balls, etc...

What Nick is not, as you point out, is very fast...i disagree about his speed...I would say it is above average but by no means is his fast...I just think he probably runs better than the average player.

He doesn't have amazing range in RF..But hey, that's why he is a RFer and not a CFer..Nothing wrong with that.

He has to rely more on positioning and things like that.

The problem is, if he has some slight injuries and that takes away even some speed, it is going to really hurt him out there.

So, its kind of tough to say...In no way do I think Nick or Adam have forgotten how to play their positions. They are both above average defenders at their positions but for whatever reason, they aren't this year.

The question is why? What has changed that is causing him to be worse this year than last year(and for Nick, the years before that as well)??

[rolliefingers]

You honestly believe that a two out home run in the ninth inning to go from losing to winning doesn't disprove your theory. Seriously, make good on your promise. Leave the site. I'm tired of reading this tripe.

I know I don't have to tell you this, but:

Ignore button.

[Old#5fan]

And his bat plays better in CF than LF.

I cannot disagree.

[JTrea81]

I really don't want to prolong the hijacking of this well-considered thread, but JTrea is not saying anything new or crazy in this thread. He may be carrying his premise a little too far, but the premise isn't crazy:

1. When the team is losing, players tend to get down, some more than others. Roberts seems more susceptible to this than others (as many have pointed out) and Markakis seems to have his moments too. Yes, they played great when the offense was clicking in April and then came the "well, the offense is doing IT'S job" comments and the pitching got a little better and the offense from the top of our lineup fell apart.

2. (Again as mentioned by many others). Losing has taken a toll on Roberts and Markakis - this is because they are human and competitors and not because they're dogging it. Worst case scenarios are far easier to imagine for them as Os because they have lived through them before. That doesn't mean they won't both be clutch players when the tide really starts rising next year.

3. While watching the great comeback, the first comment I made to those watching with me was that the guys who started the turnaround were Pie, Andino, Salazar, Wieters ... not Kakes or Huff or Roberts. It felt to me that the ones who were not here for the 30-3 game had to be the ones to keep playing like they didn't know any better than to believe they could still show something to the Sox and to themselves.

The way Markakis and Roberts responded to that glimmer of hope provided by the newer guys gives me a lot of hope for how this will all play out over the next couple of years. I know this isn't the best analogy, but it's like going out with a girl who has been screwed over a lot in the past. It takes a while for them to believe that bad times can be over in a moment and good times can last.

.

Excellent post. I wrote something similar but accidentally erased it. These guys are human, and are susceptible to the culture of losing. Losing does take a toll, and I agree when motivated to play for the playoffs as soon as possibly next year, Markakis and Roberts will rebound back to their normal performance. People don't understand that I don't blame these guys if they are "mailing it in." I'm providing reasons why they may be doing so...

[caljr]

I think Nick may have lost a step this year and I don't think it is because he is getting older - I don't think he is in as good of shape. My theory is that he didn't work out as much as he normally does because of his new marriage and the baby on the way. I noticed that he didn't look to be in as good of shape when I was at Spring Training this year. He was coming out to the player's parking lot wearing one of those tight fitting under armour shirts. To me, it looked like he was carrying more weight than he should have been in his mid-section. I think this may be part of the problem.

[Old#5fan]

Markakis is a very smart and solid OFer...Strong and accurate arm, gets to most balls, etc...

What Nick is not, as you point out, is very fast...i disagree about his speed...I would say it is above average but by no means is his fast...I just think he probably runs better than the average player.

He doesn't have amazing range in RF..But hey, that's why he is a RFer and not a CFer..Nothing wrong with that.

He has to rely more on positioning and things like that.

The problem is, if he has some slight injuries and that takes away even some speed, it is going to really hurt him out there.

So, its kind of tough to say...In no way do I think Nick or Adam have forgotten how to play their positions. They are both above average defenders at their positions but for whatever reason, they aren't this year.

The question is why? What has changed that is causing him to be worse this year than last year(and for Nick, the years before that as well)??

When it comes to fielding which is largely focus and desire based and less on talent than any other aspect of the game, I think the dropoff has to come from lack of motivation. The team is non-competitive (dead last in AL East) and the existence of the LT contract (nothing to prove anymore as an individual).

[JTrea81]

I think Nick may have lost a step this year and I don't think it is because he is getting older - I don't think he is in as good of shape. My theory is that he didn't work out as much as he normally does because of his new marriage and the baby on the way. I noticed that he didn't look to be in as good of shape when I was at Spring Training this year. He was coming out to the player's parking lot wearing one of those tight fitting under armour shirts. To me, it looked like he was carrying more weight than he should have been in his mid-section. I think this may be part of the problem.

Sounds like he tried the "Huff Daddy Workout." :laughlol:

[caljr]

Sounds like he tried the "Huff Daddy Workout." :laughlol:

Yeah, I think he and Huff were trying to eat for 2 as well when their wives were pregnant.

[Three Run Homer]

And his bat plays better in CF than LF.

But Jones' bat plays worse in LF!

Either Jones can handle CF defensively or he can't. If he can, he should be the starting CF. Even if Pie is somewhat better defensively, the gap would have to be large to overcome the gap between Pie's offense and the offense of the LF/DH type who would be discplaced by moving Jones to LF.