The decline in our OF defense is on display

[Sports Guy]

But Jones' bat plays worse in LF!

Either Jones can handle CF defensively or he can't. If he can, he should be the starting CF. Even if Pie is somewhat better defensively, the gap would have to be large to overcome the gap between Pie's offense and the offense of the LF/DH type who would be discplaced by moving Jones to LF.

Not really....Jones has an exceptional bat for CF(if he reaches potential).

In LF, his bat plays average or better.

Reimold goes to DH and Scott is dealt for another area of need.

[Three Run Homer]

Not really....Jones has an exceptional bat for CF(if he reaches potential).

In LF, his bat plays average or better.

Reimold goes to DH and Scott is dealt for another area of need.

Jones' bat may be good enough for LF, but it's exceptional as you say for CF. So if he can play CF, you want him there to maximize your profit at the position. It's the same argument as to why you want Wieters at C, rather than shifting him to 1B to save his knees. Wieters will probably hit enough to be an above average 1B, but he'll be off the charts at C, and so that's where you want him to play if he can handle the position.

The question is whether the gap between Pie and Jones' defense outweighs the gap between Scott and Pie's (or Snyder and Pie's) offense.

[Sports Guy]

Jones' bat may be good enough for LF, but it's exceptional as you say for CF. So if he can play CF, you want him there to maximize your profit at the position. It's the same argument as to why you want Wieters at C, rather than shifting him to 1B to save his knees. Wieters will probably hit enough to be an above average 1B, but he'll be off the charts at C, and so that's where you want him to play if he can handle the position.

The question is whether the gap between Pie and Jones' defense outweighs the gap between Scott and Pie's (or Snyder and Pie's) offense.

Its also about maximizing what is best for the team.

And defensively, this is likely a better team with Pie in CF and Jones in LF.

[Sports Guy]

If you think that his theory that Nick and Brian just don't really care now that they have long term contracts is absurd on the face of it then you're acting just as goofy as he is (sorry, I don't know what else to call it).

How do people like you not get that it is EXTREMELY insulting to question someone's integrity with no evidence at all? We have evidence that his range his decreased. We've got ZERO evidence that it is because he doesn't care. We actually have ample evidence AGAINST that theory.

There is likely a problem (though I'm not at all sure that the problem is nearly as severe as it seems as these ratings are extremely susceptible to statistical anomalies over the short and medium term), but the chances that the root of this problem lies in Nick's new contract and a lack of integrity/professionalism are about the same as the chances that I suddenly start getting younger like Brad Pitt in that movie.

You can look down your nose at me if you want, but I bet you wouldn't want to have people questioning your integrity in a public forum with no evidence. I only ask that we treat these guys as we'd expect to be treated.

They are just speculating on the problem and I mean, let's face it, if they aren't injured, then what the hell is wrong?

[Dadaist]

They are just speculating on the problem

Yea, speculation that involves character assassination....

[Old#5fan]

If you think they're mailing it in and it isn't that big of a deal to say so, I suggest you write a letter to Nick, Brian, DT, and AM expressing that you think they're doing this and your reasons "supporting" why you think it may be happening. Actually, you should really go see them in person and say these things. At least I'd have some respect for you if you did that.

I bet you all the money in the world you'd NEVER EVER say anything remotely close to these things if you were sitting in a room with any of these four men. Heck, you wouldn't say it if you were sitting in a room with the OH crowd. If you say you would, let me know. I'll mail you money for a plane ticket to Baltimore today. I'll meet you there and we'll try to get an audience with one or more of these guys. I'm totally serious here. Let me know when you want to go. I'll pay all costs so long as I can witness.

Stop acting like this is no big deal. You're questioning these guys' integrity regardless of how you try to downplay it. Words have consequences. You're trying to be big man in a chat room is what you're doing. You love conspiracy theories and you realize that nobody can touch you so you say whatever you want whenever you want REGARDLESS of how demeaning it is to people who are FAR more accomplished than you or I are ever likely to be. It is disgusting IMO.

It is no big deal. This is an internet forum not Meet the Press! I know you have me on ignore as I normally have you, but I am sure someone will pass this along. This is the most gross exaggeration of a non-issue that I have ever seen on here bar none! Utterly over the top by a country mile!:rolleyestf::eektf:

[Old#5fan]

They are just speculating on the problem and I mean, let's face it, if they aren't injured, then what the hell is wrong?

He has no answer other than to deny, deny, and deny even more and complain about those of us who see the reality of the situation with clear vision and sense of the truth and aren't afraid to tell it either.:rolleyestf:

[El Gordo]

I actually agree that this is possible. W/o really meaning to be in worse shape, I think it is possible that Nick's bodyfat rose and his agility fell because his offseason was so hectic with personal stuff. I didn't think he looked as thin or as strong in ST this year either, but I was hoping I was mistaken. He has always swam in his uniform so it is hard to tell for sure IMO.

I would think the extra drag from his uniform would help him burn more calories when he swims. On the other hand swimming, while great exercise, is not the best way to keep the fat off.:mwahaha:

[Pickles]

Or maybe, just maybe, defensive stats are imperfect and deeply flawed.

I have seen enough discrepancies with defensive stats that I don't take them as biblical revelation.

[El Gordo]

Yea, speculation that involves character assassination....

Yeah, I agree. Just speculating mind you, but maybe AJ is a vampire and hasn't been getting out at night, or conversely he's a big party animal and has been staying out too late, or maybe it's just that his crack habit is finally catching up to him. Just speculating mind you; that's what we do here at the old message board.:rolleyestf:

[Skeletor]

The eyes are still the best judge of defense. And, in my eyes, AJ and Nick have been struggling.

[Pickles]

Winner, winner, chicken dinner

The real problem as I see it is that we have some folks on here who put faith in things they don't really understand, especially if those things are "problems" that they can espouse about.

I've read A TON on defensive metrics over the years and I like to think I'm not an idiot, but I'm not qualified to defend why defensive metrics are accurate over an X game sample. On the contrary, I come away from my learning efforts with more questions than answers. That doesn't mean the stats aren't valuable. They may be, but I haven't been convinced how valuable or over what sample size. Therefore I try not to quote them because I try not to act authoritative over subjects that I either don't grasp or don't have enough information to defend.

Yeah, but isn't in funner to just insinuate guys are lazy, than to try to understand something, particularly when that subject is difficult and full of the unknown?

In a side comment, I really think it should be a bannable offense to continually make character assasinations based on nothing but "my opinion."

[Old#5fan]

Winner, winner, chicken dinner

The real problem as I see it is that we have some folks on here who put faith in things they don't really understand, especially if those things are "problems" that they can espouse about.

I've read A TON on defensive metrics over the years and I like to think I'm not an idiot, but I'm not qualified to defend why defensive metrics are accurate over an X game sample. On the contrary, I come away from my learning efforts with more questions than answers. That doesn't mean the stats aren't valuable. They may be, but I haven't been convinced how valuable or over what sample size. Therefore I try not to quote them because I try not to act authoritative over subjects that I either don't grasp or don't have enough information to defend.

And this explanation is not hogwash because? I mean facts are facts. Either there is some reason for his defensive decline or there is none. Some people believe in total random chance and the universe is simply a random event with no order. If you believe that than maybe there is no reason for NM's defensive decline. However, if you don't and believe in any kind of logic and reasoning than his decline is not random.

However, you don't need stats to see that he is not making as many good plays in RF as one would expect of a alleged above average or even (spare the term - allstar or GG worthy outfielder. It is a fact and yes, there must be a reason for it. Even though you have no idea why, it doesn't mean there is no explanation. So you should not be chastising those of us who have thrown out some theories.

[Old#5fan]

The eyes are still the best judge of defense. And, in my eyes, AJ and Nick have been struggling.

You got it my friend. You don't need some sort of mathematical equation to see that either.:rolleyestf::clap3:

[Old#5fan]

Yeah, but isn't in funner to just insinuate guys are lazy, than to try to understand something, particularly when that subject is difficult and full of the unknown?

In a side comment, I really think it should be a bannable offense to continually make character assasinations based on nothing but "my opinion."

Again, this is a message board not "Meet the Press." How come you can't make an opinion on something here? A character assassination accusation is just way over-the-top.

I guess every time someone belittles the President or a politial figure they ought to be banned from speaking? Gimme a break, this is the United States. Land of the Free and Freedom of Speech. If you don't love it leave it, as Merle The Hag, my favorite singer sings!