How long can YOU put up with losing.

[olehippi]

I can handle the losing as long as there is obvious improvement in the team.

The biggest factor determining the O's success will be their ability to compete with the likes of New York, Boston, Tampa Bay, and Toronto. And IMO, those teams will have to "dumb down" a little talent-wise for that to happen.

I think the O's may hit the .500 mark in 2010, but it will likely be 2012 before we begin to be considered as legitimate contenders....and that's only if everything goes well with the young players, and the above-mentioned dumbing down occurs.

[ledzepp8]

It's an unconditional love.

[El Gordo]

I'm with Frobby, as long as it takes.

[NewMarketSean]

I'm with Frobby, as long as it takes.

Me too. Or at least until they become the Las Vegas Blackjacks.

[atom_25]

It's simple, I'm an Oriole's fan, in good times and bad. Is it frustrating?? Absolutely. Still no reason to have "had enough". I'm from Baltimore and I bleed orange and black and nothing's ever gonna change that.

+1. As depressing as it can sometimes be

[murrayfan420]

Sometimes I ask myself why I continue to so closely follow a team I know will lose more games than they win, already somewhat predetermining how much I enjoy the experience.

It's like going to a movie you know is going to suck (Land of the Lost) because you like some of the characters (Will Ferrell, Danny McBride). Yea the movie was bad but you thoroughly enjoyed good portions of the movie.

Even if the streak goes to 20 consecutive years I'll probably still watch O's games. I'll most likely follow them less than I do now but I can't forsee ever just not caring anymore about them.

If 2012 comes and the cavalry flops and we have no immediate hope.. I don't see myself reading Orioles Hangout anymore, I'll leave it at that.

[JDubs]

Forever and I don't mean that lightly or facetiously. If I felt this team was "pulling a Pirates" and didn't even try to win (and let's face it, that has happened...though not currently), then I would get really frustrated, but I would never totally write this team off.

Losing as a fan of the Orioles is more fun to me then winning as a fan of any other team that I love. Winning would be more fun, but they last won the WS the year after I was born, so I don't know any better. I love the team and I love being part of a fandom that stays true even after years of losing.

[Shopay]

I want to see improvement over the 2nd half. Hopefully a winning record, but that will depend on who's here.

As to when I will start thinking that MacPhail's plan has failed, that will be when the main pieces are all up and adjusted and still not doing well. If in 2010 and 2011 we aren't playing well even though Wieters, Reimold, Snyder, Arrieta, Tillman, and Matusz are all up and through what would be a decent sized adjustment phase, if those guys just collectively end up coming up short, then I will think MacPhail's plan whiffed. That probably won't be until 2011 though.

As to when I will stop following the Orioles, that will be when I die.

This is pretty much how I see it as well.

[RayKinsella]

You're really asking two questions here:

1) When will you give up on the Orioles...if you're a fan, the simple answer is never.

2) When will you give up on THESE Orioles...even the hardest critic would have to agree the franchsie is healthier now than it's been in a decade. But of course, we all want to see the improvement. I want to have hope. And even though I'm not very hopefully we'll make the playoffs this year, I do have hope in seeing Reimold, Wieters, Bergeson, Jones, etc. mature. Add them to Markakis and Roberts, and I'm even more hopeful. PLUS...add in the anticipation for the young arms...and the light at the end of the tunnel is bright... aka, hope.

If I feel hope, I don't give up on the these Orioles.

[JDubs]

I am not talking about abandoning the team. But 2010 will be the 4th year AM has been GM. If the players he's brought to Baltimore are showing no improvement in the standings then I will be saying that something needs to change.

And I would disagree with you. AM is a good GM, IMO. Sometimes moves don't work out, but you can trust that he is going to be taking the smart risks that this team needs to improve.

It took a long time for our front office to become this competent. It is going to take a lot for me to believe that we should undo it. A lot like...trading the Big Three for banana cream pie.

[Skeletor]

I'll always be an O's fan. I also don't think it's a foregone conclusion that we are going to be competitive 2011-2015. There are still a lot of things that have to go right. But I'll be there no matter what.

[NewMarketSean]

And I would disagree with you. AM is a good GM, IMO. Sometimes moves don't work out, but you can trust that he is going to be taking the smart risks that this team needs to improve.

It took a long time for our front office to become this competent. It is going to take a lot for me to believe that we should undo it. A lot like...trading the Big Three for banana cream pie.

The knock against AM (mostly from his days in CHI) are that he can't make the big move to put a team over the top. Like a big name FA signing. Has he ever had one?

[CountIsFull]

My wife and I just had this conversation. The way I look at it is the O's lost so many years because they had no direction, then AM came and that was 2007. So, I think the question really is, "How long does it take to build a franchise?"

In my opinion, if the strategy is based on a farm system alone, the ballclub should have a winning season in the 6th year of the rebuilding process. The reason is because it all starts with the draft.

Not every draft pick is going to make it and each draft pick will probably spend an average of 3 years in the minors. I think it's reasonable to say 6 years because it allows the reality that not every draft pick will succeed and the draft pick need time to develop in the minors.

If a ballclub reasonably utilizes trades and/or free agency, you may be able to shave a year or two off the 6 year plan.

With our emphasis on farm system development, I predict the O's to have a winning season in 2012. I'm shaving a year off of the 6 year plan because of Markakis and Jones.

If by 2014 we don't have a winning season, I'll still love my beloved O's, but I will no longer have expectations on when we'll win again.

[JDubs]

The knock against AM (mostly from his days in CHI) are that he can't make the big move to put a team over the top. Like a big name FA signing. Has he ever had one?

I mean, you are basically correct. But the thing that I love about AM, and the thing that may very well overrule any big move deficiencies for me, is that he is such a great evaluator of talent (or deftly uses the resources available to him to evaluate talent better than most teams in the league). I always trust that we are going to come out on top when we make a trade. That's how much confidence I have in AM. And I don't get mad when no trade is made because if he says that he didn't get the right offer, then so be it.

The reason that I say you are "basically" right and not completely right is the Bedard trade. That was genius and it was BIG. If we were a good team when he made that trade, it would have taken us over the top. The reason he has not made a big move to put us over the top yet is that we haven't been within one move of the top in many seasons. We are a lot closer now than when AM took over.

[RShack]

I am not talking about abandoning the team. But 2010 will be the 4th year AM has been GM.

Perhaps you should take a remedial course in how to count.

A couple weeks ago, we had the 2nd anniversary of AM showing up. Upon arriving, he took a few months to assess the organization, and that took him until near the end of the 2007 season. Once he assessed things and discovered that the franchise was in worse shape than he had realized, he began taking action to rebuild the franchise in Fall 2007. At that time, he clearly stated that we should expect the team to be competitive no sooner than 2010. Not "contending" but "competitive". Not 2009, but 2010. Not "no later than", but "no sooner than". These are just plain facts.

AM's comments at that time is an example of somebody trying to accurately portray the facts of the matter. You might wish to take lessons. At the end of this season, we will be 2 years in to AM taking steps to rebuild the franchise. Whether his 3rd year of making changes ends in mid-2010 or at the end of the 2010 season depends on whether you start the clock when he walked in the door or when he started acting on his assessment. Either way, to say that next year will be his 4th year is a blatant case of misrepresenting the truth and twisting things to make progress seem slower than it is. When it comes to the basics of respecting the truth and fairly representing the facts of the matter, AM's track record is far better than yours.