How long can YOU put up with losing.

[Three Run Homer]

I've put up with losing for going on 12 straight seasons, so more losing won't make me stop rooting for the O's.

As for judging the current rebuilding effort, I would wait until 2011. We might win next year, but our young starters may struggle at first. The things I most want to see 2010 are (1) the big three are all in the rotation by mid-season (and preferably sooner); (2) the team hustles consistently; (3) AM has traded some of our current older players to continue to build the young talent base, in particular in the infield.

[Dr. FLK]

Perhaps you should take a remedial course in how to count.

A couple weeks ago, we had the 2nd anniversary of AM showing up. He then took a few months to assess the organization, and that took him until near the end of the 2007 season. Once he assessed things and discovered that the franchise was in worse shape than he had realized, he began taking action to rebuild the franchise in Fall 2007. At that time, he clearly stated that we should expect the team to be competitive no sooner than 2010. Not "contending" but "competitive". Not 2009, but 2010. Not "no later than", but "no sooner than". These are just plain facts.

AM's comments at that time is an example of somebody trying to accurately portray the facts of the matter. You might wish to take lessons. At the end of this season, we will be 2 years in to AM taking steps to rebuild the franchise. Whether his 3rd year of making changes ends in mid-2010 or at the end of the 2010 season depends on whether you start the clock when he walked in the door or when he started acting on his assessment. Either way, to say that next year will be his 4th year is a blatant case of misrepresenting the truth and twisting things to make progress seem slower than it is. When it comes to the basics of respecting the truth and fairly representing the facts of the matter, AM's track record is far better than yours.

If his 3rd year ends during 2010, then his 4th year begins in 2010. So, the 4th year of AM will take place during a time period including 2010, won't it? Granted, his 4th year won't end until sometime in 2011, but I don't think he said 2010 will be the end of his 4th year. He's not really "as wrong" as your "I am smarter than him" post would make it seem.

[NewMarketSean]

I mean, you are basically correct. But the thing that I love about AM, and the thing that may very well overrule any big move deficiencies for me, is that he is such a great evaluator of talent (or deftly uses the resources available to him to evaluate talent better than most teams in the league). I always trust that we are going to come out on top when we make a trade. That's how much confidence I have in AM. And I don't get mad when no trade is made because if he says that he didn't get the right offer, then so be it.

The reason that I say you are "basically" right and not completely right is the Bedard trade. That was genius and it was BIG. If we were a good team when he made that trade, it would have taken us over the top. The reason he has not made a big move to put us over the top yet is that we haven't been within one move of the top in many seasons. We are a lot closer now than when AM took over.

No doubt the Bedard trade was huge. But I am talking about taking a competitive team over the top. AM had a chance to do that in CHI, but never did. Right now, AM is trying to get the O's to the competitive level.

I also don't know if AM is a "great evaluator of talent" as much as he is a guy who knows when to take a chance on someone with potential. See Hill and Pie. If he was a great talent evaluator he would have never signed Eaton. However, he knew he could afford to take a chance on Eaton...and knew that Hendrickson was valuable as a BP arm.

[srock]

Forever.

This is my team. I don't jump because they're losing. I lament, but they're my team, and I'm sticking by them, even if they suck until the day I die.

++

For better or worse.

[QSII]

They hooked me in '66, when I was ten, so I give them until Thursday.

[RShack]

If his 3rd year ends during 2010, then his 4th year begins in 2010. So, the 4th year of AM will take place during a time period including 2010, won't it?

I clearly stated that it depends on whether you prefer to mark progress based on his arrival date or when he completed his initial assessment and began taking action. Which one you pick depends on what you're trying to gauge and how you're trying to gauge it. I'm not interesting in twisting the facts, and I fully agree that you can pick whichever one you think is most appropriate.

[NewMarketSean]

If his 3rd year ends during 2010, then his 4th year begins in 2010. So, the 4th year of AM will take place during a time period including 2010, won't it? Granted, his 4th year won't end until sometime in 2011, but I don't think he said 2010 will be the end of his 4th year. He's not really "as wrong" as you're "I am smarter than him" post would make it seem.

I knew what Rshack was getting at. He was using "Rshack math". It's kind of like "fuzzy math" but with more personal attacks and insults added for effect. I didn't respond to his post because of this. I am thinking it is the start of an overall trend.

For example... I started my job on April 15th, 2004...but since I was really just learning the job for three months, I didn't really start until July 15th. And since it was the middle of the month it was really August that I started. So I might as well make it September.

[JDubs]

No doubt the Bedard trade was huge. But I am talking about taking a competitive team over the top. AM had a chance to do that in CHI, but never did. Right now, AM is trying to get the O's to the competitive level.

I also don't know if AM is a "great evaluator of talent" as much as he is a guy who knows when to take a chance on someone with potential. See Hill and Pie. If he was a great talent evaluator he would have never signed Eaton. However, he knew he could afford to take a chance on Eaton...and knew that Hendrickson was valuable as a BP arm.

Well hopefully AM will have another opportunity to pull of such a move in the near future. But I'm thinking 2012 is a minimum deadline for failing to do so.

I think Eaton was supposed to be an inning eater with a small chance of being above average. AM probably knew he would be gone by the all star break but needed someone with experience to hold it down until Berken, Bergeson, or another could make it up.

Hill and Pie were obviously low risk, low investment, high reward gambles. I like them. I hope he makes more of these deals. Hill probably won't be a front end starter but may pan out in the pen. Maybe not, still worth it. Pie is a starter in this league--maybe not a great one, but a competent one when all is said and done. I'm not mad at AM for making that move just because Riemold beat him out with near rookie of the year play.

So in short...AM for President. Or something like that.

[osfan83]

I only lose interest in the context of one season. The guy on here with the 'OsFanThruJune' handle sums it up for me. It's right about this time of year when I start missing games and losing interest: we're on a long, likely very crappy road trip on the west coast, games are too late for me to stay up and watch, and summer activities are starting to eat up my weekends. I still follow every game on my blackberry as I get 3/6/F scoring updates, and I generally read a post-game wrap if I missed a game, but I start putting the O's lower and lower on my list of priorities.

I told my friends at the beginning of the season that my goal was to watch 150+ games this year, and I had every intention of doing it. I really thought that this offense was going to keep me interested. But even that has spoiled over the past few weeks. Quite simply, this team isn't worth my time after a certain point. I reserve 4+ hours of my day, as a 27-year-old man, living alone, in the prime of my life, for THIS team? Are you effing kidding me? I've been doing this for 5 years now since I've been out of school and back into O's network range. And every single time, this team craps the bed by late June and becomes unwatchable. I really looked forward to those 150 games this year, but I'm not going to watch reruns of the same damn show night after night. Right now, I'm limited to prioritizing Bergesen's starts, and that's it. I'm no longer going to clear my schedule for the other 80% of our games.

Hopefully, this will pick back up later on THIS season. Bet your ass I'm going to watch this team again when Tillman and Arrieta come up. But until then, I just can't keep wasting my time. I have too much other fun stuff to do at this point in my life, and the O's just piss me off too much to devote 648+ hours a year to watch them stink it up all summer.

I usually follow the 10 under rule. Once we hit 10 under, I stop watching for the most part. I've always liked the Reds, so starting tonight I will start watching their games (playing .500 with an outside shot at the playoffs) and I just joined the RedZone.

I will always love the O's, they are my team, but it's hard to watch them play out the string for 3 months every year.

[Dipper9]

I am a lifelong Orioles fan, and will be until one of two things happens...I die, or the Mayflower truck empties out the warehouse in the middle of a cold January night! I hate the losing, hate it with a passion, but every GD night I am right there watching them again, and again, and again. I was in Ocean City last week, but still managed to have the ballgame on every day. Tuesday we got back from the boardwalk, I turned the game on and saw us losing 9-1 in a rain dealyed fifth inning. So I left the tv on while we played a game of 500 Rummy. My father-in-law finally went to bed in the 7th after a 3-run blast from Salazar tightened the deficit. Then finally we all went to bed, but I left the game on in the bedroom....and damn near woke up everyone in the condo complex as I cheered and ran around the bedroom following the amazing comeback victory. There I sat, 8 games under .500, more than 10 games back in the division, working on 12 straight losing seasons, and I thought, what a great time to be an Orioles fan!!!!!

All that said, my biggest fear is not that the Orioles will never turn it around. My biggest fear is BASEBALL itself. My biggest fear is that the Orioles will do things the right way, rebuild a contending ballclub, have youth at most of the positions and a solid young rotation, and STILL be third best in the division behind the money spending Sox and Yanks. THAT my friends is my biggest fear of being an Orioles fan...the fear that whatever we do, whatever MacPhail does, it will not ever be enough to sustain a annual playoff contending ballclub in the AL East.

[osfan83]

I am a lifelong Orioles fan, and will be until one of two things happens...I die, or the Mayflower truck empties out the warehouse in the middle of a cold January night! I hate the losing, hate it with a passion, but every GD night I am right there watching them again, and again, and again. I was in Ocean City last week, but still managed to have the ballgame on every day. Tuesday we got back from the boardwalk, I turned the game on and saw us losing 9-1 in a rain dealyed fifth inning. So I left the tv on while we played a game of 500 Rummy. My father-in-law finally went to bed in the 7th after a 3-run blast from Salazar tightened the deficit. Then finally we all went to bed, but I left the game on in the bedroom....and damn near woke up everyone in the condo complex as I cheered and ran around the bedroom following the amazing comeback victory. There I sat, 8 games under .500, more than 10 games back in the division, working on 12 straight losing seasons, and I thought, what a great time to be an Orioles fan!!!!!

All that said, my biggest fear is not that the Orioles will never turn it around. My biggest fear is BASEBALL itself. My biggest fear is that the Orioles will do things the right way, rebuild a contending ballclub, have youth at most of the positions and a solid young rotation, and STILL be third best in the division behind the money spending Sox and Yanks. THAT my friends is my biggest fear of being an Orioles fan...the fear that whatever we do, whatever MacPhail does, it will not ever be enough to sustain a annual playoff contending ballclub in the AL East.

Well, I think that is a foregone conclusion. Unless MLB enforses some sort of salary cap, it is unlikley a team that spend less than half of it's two biggest rivals will compete for any length of time. A season or two at a time maybe. But as the system stands now, 8 out of every 10 years the Sox and Yanks will be in the post season.

[Satyr3206]

Well, I think that is a foregone conclusion. Unless MLB enforses some sort of salary cap, it is unlikley a team that spend less than half of it's two biggest rivals will compete for any length of time. A season or two at a time maybe. But as the system stands now, 8 out of every 10 years the Sox and Yanks will be in the post season.

If you think this is a fact, why even try. If your defeated before the battle, you may as well surrender.

[cindyluvsbrady]

I will never give up.....ever

As long as I am on this earth I will BELIEVE:):clap3:

I love My Os!:2yay-thumb::wedge:

[cindyluvsbrady]

++

For better or worse.

I love this reply!!!!:wedge:

[Mackus]

The knock against AM (mostly from his days in CHI) are that he can't make the big move to put a team over the top. Like a big name FA signing. Has he ever had one?

Not really, but he has traded for and extended several pending FAs. Guys like Aramis Ramirez among others. That's essentially the same thing, probably even more difficult.