Sun: A big relief for Salazar

[HoodGuy007]

Friendly inquiry ... why do you believe that Oscar is merely a capable bench player rather than a starting-quality-level DH (at minimum), as I see him?

I know this question wasn't directed towards me, but I actually see it oppositely. He is a starting level DH, but he offers no quality depth positions otherwise. Scott, Huff, and Wigginton all can play at least one defensive position at a major league average capability while having the same ability to hit at close to if not the same level or better than Oscar.

[HoodGuy007]

This seems like yet another example of the mind-numbing repetition of the urban myths surrounding Oscar that I keep seeing on this board. Putting aside Montanez, whom I believe many on this board also under-value egregiously, can you take any other of your "dime-a-dozen" players just mentioned and tell us how their offensive numbers match up with what Oscar has done in the past 2.5 years at the minor league and major league levels?

Una momento por favor...

Luis Terrero, again as a better defender, has batted .308 with mid teens home run power in his extended minor league stays over the past four seasons. Salazar has batted .306 over the past four minor league seasons, with slightly more power (20 home run potential) and around the same OPS for both players. Luis Terrero is currently playing in the Mexican League... I think we could pick him up if we absolutely had to.

Even Jeff Fiorentino has had a relatively good minor league career, batting .285, mid-teens power, and an .882 OPS over the past six seasons. Again, including his defensive production, he makes just as much sense, especially if making him the fourth outfielder allows more time for Scott and Montanez to DH.

[El Gordo]

I know this question wasn't directed towards me, but I actually see it oppositely. He is a starting level DH, but he offers no quality depth positions otherwise. Scott, Huff, and Wigginton all can play at least one defensive position at a major league average capability while having the same ability to hit at close to if not the same level or better than Oscar.

I could see Salazar being a much better hitter than Wiggy and as good if not better than Huff. A RH Scott with a bit less power. I would like to see what he could do if given a season at 1B DH.

[sangar]

Friendly inquiry ... why do you believe that Oscar is merely a capable bench player rather than a starting-quality-level DH (at minimum), as I see him?

So far he is hitting like Ted Williams. Small samples cannot accurately predict future results. While it may be true that he has done well the past year+ in AAA he has yet to convince me that he is anything more than the flavor of the month. If he continues being successful deep into the second half he will have credible evidence, as of yet he does not. When the league adjusts, and it will, we will see how he reacts.

[sangar]

I could see Salazar being a much better hitter than Wiggy and as good if not better than Huff. A RH Scott with a bit less power. I would like to see what he could do if given a season at 1B DH.

That's a bold statement.

[HoodGuy007]

I could see Salazar being a much better hitter than Wiggy and as good if not better than Huff. A RH Scott with a bit less power. I would like to see what he could do if given a season at 1B DH.

So you literally see Salazar as the Orioles' David Ortiz? Some guy that we picked up off a scrap heap a couple of years ago (again, the Mexican League) who will be better than last year's Silver Slugger winner at the DH position?

[Skeletor]

I have a feeling it's going to be a moot point. I there's any way Huff can be moved before this decision is necessary, it will be done.

[El Gordo]

So you literally see Salazar as the Orioles' David Ortiz? Some guy that we picked up off a scrap heap a couple of years ago (again, the Mexican League) who will be better than last year's Silver Slugger winner at the DH position?

Ortiz was a guy who could hit 20 HR's but couldn't play any position in the field, so Minnesota let him go. He was younger than Oscar but his numbers were similar. You don't know if you don't give him a shot. I see a potentially exceptional hitter. Certainly better than Montenez. And the thing that makes him especially valuable is that he is a RH bat. We need a few of those who can hit. The jury is out on Reimold IMO, Mora wll be gone, Wiggy is an undisciplined hitter who should only face lefties. We need more than just Wieters and Jones, assuming they are the real thing.

[sangar]

Ortiz was a guy who could hit 20 HR's but couldn't play any position in the field, so Minnesota let him go. He was younger than Oscar but his numbers were similar. You don't know if you don't give him a shot. I see a potentially exceptional hitter. Certainly better than Montenez. And the thing that makes him especially valuable is that he is a RH bat. We need a few of those who can hit. The jury is out on Reimold IMO, Mora wll be gone, Wiggy is an undisciplined hitter who should only face lefties. We need more than just Wieters and Jones, assuming they are the real thing.

I think you're over valuing the guy a little. Better than Huff, comparing him to Ortiz, exceptional hitter. Well, I certainly hope you're right. I'll wait till he proves it.

[GoldGlove21]

I think you're over valuing the guy a little. Better than Huff, comparing him to Ortiz, exceptional hitter. Well, I certainly hope you're right. I'll wait till he proves it.

Outside of a couple career years, Huff has been below average in the field and slightly below average as a first baseman in terms of overall numbers. Salazar doesn't have Huff's power and would probably play the same type of defense. Minnesota did give up on Ortiz, Detroit did give up on Carlos Pena, and we kind of gave up on Jayson Werth, but it happens. Huff has gone through streaks where he has crushed the ball at people and Salazar has had a couple of balls squirt through the infield.

I would say that Huff is still more valuable to a team like the Mets then Salazar is.

[Anonymous]

I don't necessarily disagree. Oscar is our House/Knott/Terrero this year. We will over value him for no specific reason. When he is gone, we'll have another guy to replace him, like Montanez, Gathright, or Fiorentino. It's nothing against Salazar; hitters like him are a dime a dozen. He has been dialed in the past month or so, and he probably could be a great DH. Unfortunately for him, we have two better DH's on the roster already, and a guy that plays multiple defensive positions averagly who can hit just as well when he is hot in Ty Wigginton.

I know this question wasn't directed towards me, but I actually see it oppositely. He is a starting level DH, but he offers no quality depth positions otherwise. Scott, Huff, and Wigginton all can play at least one defensive position at a major league average capability while having the same ability to hit at close to if not the same level or better than Oscar.

I'm happy to engage in repartee with you, HG, even though my question was indeed directed toward sangar.

You've raised the bar on Oscar. First you indicated that we can discard him without regret because hitters like him are a dime a dozen. Now you're criticizing him because his defense is worse than that of Scott, Huff, and Wiggy. I disagreed with your first point. I agree with your second. But it's an unfair debate strategy to do this bait and switch.

As for the comparison with Scott, Huff, and Wiggy, they do have different strengths and weaknesses. On the basis of what he's done the past 2.5 years, I think Oscar can be projected for 2010 to hit RH pitching better than Wiggy (and LH pitching no worse), to hit LH pitching better than Huff (and RH pitching no worse), to run the bases better than Huff, and to be massively cheaper than each of these guys. That's why I like Oscar at DH. I won't compare him against Luke Scott, whom I envision as our 1B for next year, and thus a complement to Oscar rather than a roster or playing time competitor.

Una momento por favor...

Luis Terrero, again as a better defender, has batted .308 with mid teens home run power in his extended minor league stays over the past four seasons. Salazar has batted .306 over the past four minor league seasons, with slightly more power (20 home run potential) and around the same OPS for both players. Luis Terrero is currently playing in the Mexican League... I think we could pick him up if we absolutely had to.

Even Jeff Fiorentino has had a relatively good minor league career, batting .285, mid-teens power, and an .882 OPS over the past six seasons. Again, including his defensive production, he makes just as much sense, especially if making him the fourth outfielder allows more time for Scott and Montanez to DH.

On what basis other than speed (including some ability to play CF) do you conclude that Terrero is a better defender than Salazar? Based on reports that I've seen on this board, he's worse. And as for his offense, are you really claiming that his OPS matches up with what Oscar has done for the past 2.5 seasons? I find that hard to believe. In this case, there really IS a good reason why Luis has been banished to the Mexican League.

I like Fio a lot as minor league depth and emergency CF fill-in (e.g., if Adam has a month-long DL stint, Jeff is the obvious roster replacement). But again, I ask whether you seriously claim that his OPS matches what Oscar has done for the past 2.5 seasons at both the minor and major league levels.

[Anonymous]

So far he is hitting like Ted Williams. Small samples cannot accurately predict future results. While it may be true that he has done well the past year+ in AAA he has yet to convince me that he is anything more than the flavor of the month. If he continues being successful deep into the second half he will have credible evidence, as of yet he does not. When the league adjusts, and it will, we will see how he reacts.

On what basis do you consider Oscar's past 2.5 seasons an insufficient sample size to project with reasonable confidence, within a reasonable range of plausible outcomes, how he's likely to perform in 2010? The minor league # of ABs is not small; the aggregate # of ABs is not small; and the major league # of ABs, while admittedly small, is no longer minuscule.

[Anonymous]

So you literally see Salazar as the Orioles' David Ortiz? Some guy that we picked up off a scrap heap a couple of years ago (again, the Mexican League) who will be better than last year's Silver Slugger winner at the DH position?

So you'd project a better future for Oscar if we'd acquired him in a different manner?

[sangar]

On what basis do you consider Oscar's past 2.5 seasons an insufficient sample size to project with reasonable confidence, within a reasonable range of plausible outcomes, how he's likely to perform in 2010? The minor league # of ABs is not small; the aggregate # of ABs is not small; and the major league # of ABs, while admittedly small, is no longer minuscule.

As Dave Trembly said "There aren't many Tori Hunters in the International League". Projecting is one thing, doing is another. After 350 major league atbats the issue will be worth revisiting. For now it's conjecture on both our parts.

[Anonymous]

As Dave Trembly said "There aren't many Tori Hunters in the International League". Projecting is one thing, doing is another. After 350 major league atbats the issue will be worth revisiting. For now it's conjecture on both our parts.

Fair enough, sangar. But roster decisions are pending before those 350 major league ABs will come to fruition -- thus the need for the decision-makers to do the projecting BEFORE the player does the doing. And my projecting leads me to feel optimistic about Oscar's likely offensive performance in 2010, such that he would be a highly adequate full-time DH for next season if he were to be entrusted with that role. He need not be Hunter for him to have value well above replacement player level, which many on here seem to suggest is all he amounts to.