Poll: Are you disappointed with the lack of international signings?

[Mackus]

This is the crux for me. When I see small market teams start signing higher profile guys, I start thinking that nothing has truly changed. I said before that I was told that the Orioles don't think the high profiles guys are worth the risk because they don't pan out all that often and it's lost money.

OK, I certainly understand not throwing money around, but if you send the right scouts down there to evaluate them and determine their worth, I can't see how we never sign any high profile guys while teams like the Pirates and Twins are.

I know we didn't put any money into the DR program for many, many years, and we've suffered for that by limiting our talent streams.

What I want to know is if the Orioles were planning to spend $20 million+ on Teixeira this season, why not put some of that money into the DR guys and sign some of the higher profile guys the scouts like.

Of course, I would also competely start over with our Dominican scouting team since it has done little to nothing over the last 20 years.

I both agree and disagree with this line of thinking.

I've always felt that say the money to go to Tex was a special thing, not from the standard budget. Now, you can easily make the argument that we could take some of that money and spend it elsewhere, and from the fan / outsiders standpoint, of course we want to see that. If the question is spend money or don't spend money, of course spend it, its not like we see any of it if they don't spend it.

On the other hand, I want to build an organization that puts a price or value on every commodity that is available, and then spends that amount to get that commodity. If the commodity demands more, we're confidant enough to walk away and focus our attention elsewhere. The potential downsides to that approach is if you tend to always undervalue commodities, you can end up empty-handed.

So while I'd love to just throw some of our extra money around at some bonus babies because why the hell not, at the same time, longer-term, I want to become an organization that never has to spend whatever it takes to get a player, because we're such a strong organization that one player will never make or break anything. Its the system that wins, not any one player. Its a bit of a Catch-22, especially when you're just starting to build something.

[Frobby]

It's hard to know what is the best strategy for the Dominican and the rest of Latin America. Spend $2 mm on one player? $100,000 each on 20 players? $20,000 each on 100 players?

Here's what I do know. We have one full squad team in the Dominican Summer League, and that team is 13-26. We also share a team with the Brewers that is 17-22. So on that macro level, we're not getting much in the way of results. Of the 33 team, the O's/Brewers are 31st in OPS, while the O's are dead last. The O's are 14th/33 in ERA while the O's/Brewers are 27/33. Whatever we are doing doesn't seem to be working.

In fairness, it seems we have at least a few decent Latin pitchers in the GCL and in Bluefield this year, and both those teams have winning records, unlike last year.

[Mackus]

Are they making offers? Are they out there blowing away the offers of other teams or are they sitting back and hoping?

There is no evidence that they are making offers and just getting beat, is there?

No matter what relationship you have with someone, if you are willing to throw money at them, especially a lot more than someone else, they will at least hear you out.

Is there evidence that they aren't making offers?

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Despite the additional coverage being given to the DR, it is still an area almost all of us are nearly completely ignorant on. I mean, how many of the guys that have signed had any of us ever heard of before reading the press release saying he signed? Hell, we drafted Hobgood #5 overall in the American draft and I had never heard of him until the day before. Its fun to get all boastful and act like we know more than we do, but in reality, we're just reacting to news we hear. We don't know what goes on down there, don't know whether we're doing good things and coming up empty handed or being lazy, or what the case is. All anybody can do really is guess. I'll hold off on forming opinions until there are some facts to back them up.

[Sanfran327]

Stop saying this...it is a pointless comment...That is you saying, its ok that we haven't brought in more talent because we already have existing talent...That is an awful way of looking at things especially when you are chasing teams that have more talent than you anyway and they are still always adding to it.

I agree with this pretty strongly. Although Moose is right (it is difficult to bring up this much talent all at once and still have a top-flight farm system afterwards), SG has a good point. Our major league team doesn't have a whole ton of long-term solutions as of now. By signing some international players and giving them time to develop into big-league contributors, the guys we have in the bigs now will have moved on when the younger guys are getting ready to come up. And by having other young guys behind them, it makes it easy to trade off good players as they near free agency for more prospects, thus starting the process all over again. This is EXACTLY the way Oakland, Minnesota, and Boston operate, except Boston can afford to re-sign their home-grown talent if they choose, and they have the funds to sign impact free agents.

If we build our farm system correctly, we can operate like them. If we minimize our free agent needs through our minor leagues, we will minimize payroll, and that will leave a lot of money available to get the one or two pieces we need to put us "over the top" when the time comes.

But SG is right... you have to be working on keeping the best talent available in your system at all times. There's no such thing as having too many options.

[Great 2BA FL Gator]

I agree with this pretty strongly. Although Moose is right (it is difficult to bring up this much talent all at once and still have a top-flight farm system afterwards), SG has a good point. Our major league team doesn't have a whole ton of long-term solutions as of now. By signing some international players and giving them time to develop into big-league contributors, the guys we have in the bigs now will have moved on when the younger guys are getting ready to come up. And by having other young guys behind them, it makes it easy to trade off good players as they near free agency for more prospects, thus starting the process all over again. This is EXACTLY the way Oakland, Minnesota, and Boston operate, except Boston can afford to re-sign their home-grown talent if they choose, and they have the funds to sign impact free agents.

If we build our farm system correctly, we can operate like them. If we minimize our free agent needs through our minor leagues, we will minimize payroll, and that will leave a lot of money available to get the one or two pieces we need to put us "over the top" when the time comes.

But SG is right... you have to be working on keeping the best talent available in your system at all times. There's no such thing as having too many options.

IMO the biggest key to remember is that building a top tier farm system does not happen overnight. We've made a ton of progress.

Another thing to remember is that we should have some late bloomers or guys that develop from the last few years' drafts. I know you can't count on it, but we should have guys like DH or others that weren't as highly touted, but turn out to be solid prospects.

I agree the international market should be a big part as well. We need to draft well, trade well, and be consistent players in the international market. We are already drafting and trading well... Hopefully we can figure out how to become a force in the international market.

Oh and I definitely agree with your last paragraph. Now that most of our top tier talent is going to be in the bigs, we have to replenish it. It's a continual drafting well/trading well/signing well.

[Tx Oriole]

I agree, but you saw what happened when I brought up Koji and Tanaka. SG essentially said they don't count, or something.

This is when i disagree with SG. THey do mean somehting special. Thye are a bridge to more from the Pacific Realm.

[Tx Oriole]

Maybe, maybe not. You can only imagine how much political and legal wrangling this would require. The organization's time and money are finite resources.

I'm not saying they shouldn't do it, just that it isn't that simple to just say "let's go into China."

I guess, but don't some of the other MLB teams have players from China? Wang for instance. I don't know if he is from China or not. Thought he was. I could be wrong.

[TonySoprano]

Maybe, maybe not. You can only imagine how much political and legal wrangling this would require. The organization's time and money are finite resources.

I'm not saying they shouldn't do it, just that it isn't that simple to just say "let's go into China."

If the Yankees can do it...

BEIJING -- The New York Yankees agreed Tuesday to send coaches, scouts and trainers to China to help boost interest in baseball, furthering a push by the major leagues into one of the world's fastest-growing sports markets.

Under the agreement, the government-backed Chinese Baseball Association will send staff to the Yankees' facilities in New York and Tampa, Fla., while Yankees personnel will assist the Chinese national team and others.

Yankees president Randy Levine said he hopes to start sending coaches and other staff to China "in a few months."

"You can call this the great push for our industry in China," New York general manager Brian Cashman said at a news conference, shortly after he and Levine donned the gray jackets and red caps of the Chinese national team and gave navy Yankees warmup jackets and caps to Chinese officials.

Though modest in scope, the agreement underscores baseball's big ambitions for China. The world's most populous country, China has a growing, prosperous middle-class and a sports market estimated to be worth $10 billion-plus annually.

source - ESPN, Jan 2007

[TGO]

I guess, but don't some of the other MLB teams have players from China? Wang for instance. I don't know if he is from China or not. Thought he was. I could be wrong.

Wang is from Taiwan, which is claimed by China but is functionally an independent nation. There are currently I believe 5 or 6 Chinese minor leaguers (all with the Yankees and Mariners) but no mainland Chinese player has reached the majors. Yet. In fact only one ML player in history was born in mainland China, Harry Kingman, the son of two white New York missionaries, who played in 1914 for the Yankees.

[waroriole]

Wang is from Taiwan, which is claimed by China but is functionally an independent nation. There are currently I believe 5 or 6 Chinese minor leaguers (all with the Yankees and Mariners) but no mainland Chinese player has reached the majors. Yet. In fact only one ML player in history was born in mainland China, Harry Kingman, the son of two white New York missionaries, who played in 1914 for the Yankees.

Wow, very informative. Someone is trying to get that first bird.

[TGO]

Wow, very informative. Someone is trying to get that first bird.

I'm workin' overtime here!

[El Gordo]

Is there evidence that they aren't making offers?

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Despite the additional coverage being given to the DR, it is still an area almost all of us are nearly completely ignorant on. I mean, how many of the guys that have signed had any of us ever heard of before reading the press release saying he signed? Hell, we drafted Hobgood #5 overall in the American draft and I had never heard of him until the day before. Its fun to get all boastful and act like we know more than we do, but in reality, we're just reacting to news we hear. We don't know what goes on down there, don't know whether we're doing good things and coming up empty handed or being lazy, or what the case is. All anybody can do really is guess. I'll hold off on forming opinions until there are some facts to back them up.

Facts? We don't need no stinkin' facts.:mwahaha:

[Sports Guy]

If the Orioles were signing the talent, my guess is all the AM defenders would be praising him for his efforts...When they don't get it done, excuses are made...Just amazing the double standard.

BTW Mackus...Here is a fact for you...We aren't signing anyone...That's all I need to know.

[Mackus]

BTW Mackus...Here is a fact for you...We aren't signing anyone...That's all I need to know.

Well that's a simpleton's view of the matter, at least in the formative years of setting up a DR network.

Signing people isn't all that matters right now. Its all that will help us immediately in terms of adding talent, but it doesn't tell the longer-term picture entirely. Its not all that will help us years from now in terms of adding talent. That is a more complicated question, with a more intricate answer.

[TyCobb]

I believe the draft has the best value signings for a MLB team. I won't be surprised to see international signings to have a lot less future value than drafts.