For those who want Carlos Lee....

[sethjames]

No way i pay Lee this. He is worth 4/40 MAX. If he was 2 years younger, i would be more inclined to do it.

SG - I get what you are saying, but your idea of trading for guys who are blocked isn't going to get us over the Sox and Yanks. 1) You don't know that those guys will be good; 2) you have to give something up to get them which means that you have to go get what you have given up. The O's screwed up with Delgado. You just can't win the way you are suggesting. It is as simple as that. The Sox look pretty good with a young Pena and Beckett. They are smart. Yes they spend, but they have gotten younger with Pena, Beckett, and Crisp. And by the way, Crisp and Beckett were not "blocked"

[Sports Guy]

Our resident Seattle reporter, Mr Max Power, has talked about how Sexson is likely untouchable. He is from that area and is a big fan favorite.

My guess is they could look to trade Beltre, Ibanez, Guardado and a few others but will keep Sexson.

[Sports Guy]

SG - I get what you are saying, but your idea of trading for guys who are blocked isn't going to get us over the Sox and Yanks. 1) You don't know that those guys will be good; 2) you have to give something up to get them which means that you have to go get what you have given up. The O's screwed up with Delgado. You just can't win the way you are suggesting. It is as simple as that. The Sox look pretty good with a young Pena and Beckett. They are smart. Yes they spend, but they have gotten younger with Pena, Beckett, and Crisp. And by the way, Crisp and Beckett were not "blocked"

Let me tell you something...No Richie Sexson or Carlos Lee is going to make this team a winner.

With PA as the owner, which comes an unwillingness to spend big money, the only way we become a consistent contender is if our young pitching reaches its potential.

Now, how do they reach that potential?:

Great pitching coach: check

Top talent: check

health: so far, pretty good...check

defense: horrible

scoring runs: average

So, get some better defense behind them and also get offense but that offense can come from a young, cheap player.

[NewMarketSean]

Let me tell you something...No Richie Sexson or Carlos Lee is going to make this team a winner.

With PA as the owner, which comes an unwillingness to spend big money, the only way we become a consistent contender is if our young pitching reaches its potential.

Now, how do they reach that potential?:

Great pitching coach: check

Top talent: check

health: so far, pretty good...check

defense: horrible

scoring runs: average

So, get some better defense behind them and also get offense but that offense can come from a young, cheap player.

Other than Tejada and Mora, and maybe Gibbons when he's not popping up -- who is "top talent" on the O's?

[Sports Guy]

Other than Tejada and Mora, and maybe Gibbons when he's not popping up -- who is "top talent" on the O's?

If you read my post, i was talking about pitching.

[ejf1025]

Let me tell you something...No Richie Sexson or Carlos Lee is going to make this team a winner.

With PA as the owner, which comes an unwillingness to spend big money, the only way we become a consistent contender is if our young pitching reaches its potential.

Now, how do they reach that potential?:

Great pitching coach: check

Top talent: check

health: so far, pretty good...check

defense: horrible

scoring runs: average

So, get some better defense behind them and also get offense but that offense can come from a young, cheap player.

I don't see why one has to preclude us from doing the other...

Going into next season everyone seems to agree that we have two or three holes dependent on the development of Patterson. We have room to add a DH, 1B and OF. Gibbons can go into 2007 starting in RF, 1B or DH- some helpful flexibility.

If the FO is willing to give Carlos Lee a deal similar to what they offered Konerko, there is still room to get younger and better defensively at 1B (bumping Gibbons to DH). Or if you make a play for a 1B like Sexson, there is still room to make a move to upgrade defensively in the OF.

In either case, I don't see the harm (and actually feel it will be a very good move) to follow your advice and go after a younger player that is blocked AND try to add a proven run producer to the lineup.

If we've learned anything through these first few months it is that young players can be maddeningly inconsistent and that our bench has little depth. There is plenty of room on the roster (and supposedly on the payroll) to add one big bat and still make a play for younger players.

Let's for the sake of argument say the O's make a move for your guy McPherson (I believe he is the one you are advocating the most, correct me if I am wrong) or Shealy (another I believe you like) this season. And then Lee takes the Konerko deal. I think we've done a decent job at adding immediate offensive impact, depth and future insurance.

[NewMarketSean]

If you read my post, i was talking about pitching.

I was too.

[davearm]

I was too.

Then why'd you list off 3 position players?

[NewMarketSean]

Then why'd you list off 3 position players?

I was talking about the ENTIRE TEAM.

Like I said, outside of those 3 players, who is top talent on this team?

We have a lot of hyped younger players and a lot of mediocre to bad jounreymen.

Not much top talent, hitting or pitching.

Oh and I probably should have replaced Gibbons with Roberts. He's top talent.

[ejf1025]

I was too.

I don't really see what Tejada and Mora have to do with pitching then...

But how you can look at Bedard, Cabrera, Ray, Loewen, Penn, et al and say they don't have top talent is beyond me....

Proven talent- no. But top talent, front-line starter stuff- certainly.

I'm still amazed as to how quickly people want these guys to develop. We are two months into a new season with a new pitching coach, new catcher and everyone acts like we should have Smoltz/Glavine re-incarnate by the the third time through the rotation.

[NewMarketSean]

I don't really see what Tejada and Mora have to do with pitching then...

But how you can look at Bedard, Cabrera, Ray, Loewen, Penn, et al and say they don't have top talent is beyond me....

Proven talent- no. But top talent, front-line starter stuff- certainly.

I'm still amazed as to how quickly people want these guys to develop. We are two months into a new season with a new pitching coach, new catcher and everyone acts like we should have Smoltz/Glavine re-incarnate by the the third time through the rotation.

Well who even knows if those guys have "top talent?"

You would think that talent means you throw the ball over the plate... Cabrera cannot.

What is this, Loewen's 3-4 year in the minor leagues and he's only in AA? He is improving, which is good news.

Bedard is solid, but looks as if he has reached his potential, which makes him a #3 or #4 pitcher on a good team.

Ray has been closer for 2 months. Too early to tell. Outlook good, though.

Penn is likely to follow in Bedard's footsteps.

Top talent usually comes into the MLB playing well -- getting better. These guys have all been up and down in their performance and look like they could have leveled off.

Again, is our talent better than it has been? YES... but only because it was so bad for so long.

[camdenyardblues]

The point is Lee is not in the same neighborhood of Delgado and Carlos just signed that contract not that long ago.

No way i pay Lee this. He is worth 4/40 MAX. If he was 2 years younger, i would be more inclined to do it.

I believe though slugging 1B get more money because they are viewed as being harder to find in comparison to slugging OF. It's a question of market demand. So Lee and Delgado are not completely comparable.

[camdenyardblues]

There certainly could be some debate as to whether Lee is worth $13M of not. I don't think he is, but he is a good player. I'd rather spend that $13M on Lee than nobody, but there certainly could be other players available (perhaps through trade) that I'd rather spend $13M on.

Completely agree although signing Lee won't mean a hill of beans unless our Cabrera and Bedard start to live up to their earmarked potential.

[BaltimoreTerp]

SG, as much as I agree that he is not near as good as Delgado, I would ask this:

Was Paul Konerko worth that much more then Delgado with the deal he got?

As much as I hate to give more money that someone is worth, I think Lee might be worth it, or at least closer then what most guys are. Mostly because he's still young, will only be 34 at the end of a four-year deal, and even if we end up with better defensive outfielders, I would have no problem paying him for his offense only as a DH.

Plus, he's not a pitcher.

I think he would be a good guy to try for this offseason.

[ejf1025]

Well who even knows if those guys have "top talent?"

You would think that talent means you throw the ball over the plate... Cabrera cannot.

What is this, Loewen's 3-4 year in the minor leagues and he's only in AA? He is improving, which is good news.

Bedard is solid, but looks as if he has reached his potential, which makes him a #3 or #4 pitcher on a good team.

Ray has been closer for 2 months. Too early to tell. Outlook good, though.

Penn is likely to follow in Bedard's footsteps.

Top talent usually comes into the MLB playing well -- getting better. These guys have all been up and down in their performance and look like they could have leveled off.

Again, is our talent better than it has been? YES... but only because it was so bad for so long.

First, I think it is not true that top talent simply comes into MLB "playing well." There are tons of examples of a learning curve.

Second, I would say that Miguel Tejada, Melvin Mora, Brian Roberts and Ramon Hernandez are all top ML talent.

Third, what exactly do you want the O's to do? For years, everyone was *****ing about the lack of talent in the system, now there is some and we don't have the patience to let them all develop? Did you expect every single prospect to come in and start? Should we trade Cabrera? Bedard? Loewen? Why'd you conveniently leave off Liz and Erbe- dominating in the minors? Should we trade them too because they aren't "top talent"?

In all honesty, it sounds to me like you are just bitter (as you probably should be) and you are going to slam the O's and their "talent" until you are satisfied...

There have been numerous national publications, statistical breakdowns that suggest that these players are not just being over-hyped by desperate fans- Bedard, Cabrera, Penn, Loewen, Liz, Erbe, Olsen are legitimate talents...but not all of them will become all-stars and if they do it won't happen in two months...