If Trembley is gone after this year ...

[El Gordo]

Fans of each of those teams would argue the quality of those managers.

Exactly. But they have good reps and good track records and are highly regarded by knowledgeable baseball people. If I were to replace DT they would be at the top of my list. So that just demonstrates that most fans of most teams aren't much different, they whine about the same things, and really know squat.

[El Gordo]

What part of the bolded part of what I wrote did you not understand? Yes, I agree Gardenhire, Scioscia and Francona are all good managers who are mild mannered. There are lots of others you didn't name. My point is sometimes a change of pace in personality style is required.

I think that the ability to keep the clubhouse is the most important aspect of managing and many different temperments can work. Unless you think DT has lost the clubhouse, why do you think we need a change of style? I'm for waiting to the end of he season, before I make any judgements on what style of managing works or doesn't work with this club.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Exactly. But they have good reps and good track records and are highly regarded by knowledgeable baseball people. If I were to replace DT they would be at the top of my list. So that just demonstrates that most fans of most teams aren't much different, they whine about the same things, and really know squat.

Or because they follow their teams every day and see the things that their managers do wrong that "knowledgeable" baseball people don't get to see.

[El Gordo]

Or because they follow their teams every day and see the things that their managers do wrong that "knowledgeable" baseball people don't get to see.

All managers do things wrong. None of them make that much of a difference in terms of W'S and L's. Those three guys have won a lot. If fans can't see that, then indeed they don't know sqaut.

[BaltimoreTerp]

All managers do things wrong. None of them make that much of a difference in terms of W'S and L's. Those three guys have won a lot. If fans can't see that, then indeed they don't know sqaut.

Who says they can't see that? In fact, I know YOU can't see where I wrote something like that.

[The Rick]

I think that the ability to keep the clubhouse is the most important aspect of managing and many different temperments can work. Unless you think DT has lost the clubhouse, why do you think we need a change of style? I'm for waiting to the end of he season, before I make any judgements on what style of managing works or doesn't work with this club.

Is DT getting the most out of this team?

[Frobby]

I think that the ability to keep the clubhouse is the most important aspect of managing and many different temperments can work. Unless you think DT has lost the clubhouse, why do you think we need a change of style? I'm for waiting to the end of he season, before I make any judgements on what style of managing works or doesn't work with this club.

I, too, am waiting for the end of the season to decide if a change is required. In any event I don't think DT has "lost the clubhouse," I just think the team may need a change in management style. Like I said, we've had low key managers for about the last 10 years and sometimes you just have to shake it up. It also works the other way sometimes. Sometimes a team that has had a really old school, crabby manager needs a gentler hand for a while. I just think if Trembley gets replaced we should have a dramatic personality change as well.

[JourneyFan]

If the Orioles go through another August-September collapse, I'd fully support Trembley's departure/dismissal; however, I'm not sure who I'd want to replace him. But, I do think it would be wise to go outside the club.

[El Gordo]

I, too, am waiting for the end of the season to decide if a change is required. In any event I don't think DT has "lost the clubhouse," I just think the team may need a change in management style. Like I said, we've had low key managers for about the last 10 years and sometimes you just have to shake it up. It also works the other way sometimes. Sometimes a team that has had a really old school, crabby manager needs a gentler hand for a while. I just think if Trembley gets replaced we should have a dramatic personality change as well.

Perhaps if we had the same team for the paast 10 years that would be true. But why do you think if DT has not lost the clubhouse his style is not efective. Do you think that is not the most important aspect of his job? I have always been of the opinion that a manager may make the difference of 2or 3 games a season with his in game and roster decisions. So if DT is the worst kind of manager in that regard, and we are 13 games under, then the best manager might have us 7 games under.

[Guest rochester]

I, too, am waiting for the end of the season to decide if a change is required. In any event I don't think DT has "lost the clubhouse," I just think the team may need a change in management style. Like I said, we've had low key managers for about the last 10 years and sometimes you just have to shake it up. It also works the other way sometimes. Sometimes a team that has had a really old school, crabby manager needs a gentler hand for a while. I just think if Trembley gets replaced we should have a dramatic personality change as well.

Agreed. On the other hand (not trying to be too reactive) I am not sure it would not have been a good idea to completely blow this team apart by getting rid of the "loser" mentality that the "veterans" bring to the table. DT will most likely take the fall, and I am not saying he shouldn't, but I am REALLY tired of the (IMO) lackadaisical attitude, and would really be upset if it become a cancer (again) to the younger guys.

Right, wrong or indifferent this is the reason I was glad that they signed Zaun. Oh, there is a lot to be said why he should not be here but I have not seen a time when he isn't putting 110% effort into winning.

I see Jeter sprint every ground out - does BRob?

I see Youk get p'd off when he makes a bad play or has a bad at-bat - does Huff?

I see Pedroia go crazy about pretty much anything - Melvin?

After this year we may not see Mora and/or Huff, etc. which I believe could be a good thing - I'd rather see a team of players that may be less talented but can not stand losing - they could be 15 out in August and still think a miracle could happen. Based on that, this is what I am seeing:

Weiters - yes

Zaun - yes

Huff - not really

Luke - yes

BRob - not really

Andino - yes

Itzuris - yes

Melvin - not really

Wiggy - mostly yes

Pie - yes, when/if he gets a chance. It seems to me that he has improved and wants to improve.

Reimold - yes

Ajones - yes

Kakes - yes

Guts - yes, but I am seeing definite cracks

BB - yes

Hernandez - yes

Hill - mostly yes

Berken - yes

Just about all the rest and BP - yes, especially Sherrill.

The pitching "cavalry" (IMO) will be added to the "yes" column because they know how to win.

So, if only based on this, Huff and Mora should not be brought back and I have some doubts about BRobs contract, albeit maybe unfairly.

This is why the Sawx can bring in a salary dump (Lowell) and have him perform to his previously level; why the Yanks bring in Hinske and he kills the first week (sure, he will not keep it up but)... it is attitude and talent.

Man, did I just go off topic...

[BaltimoreTerp]

Perhaps if we had the same team for the paast 10 years that would be true. But why do you think if DT has not lost the clubhouse his style is not efective. Do you think that is not the most important aspect of his job? I have always been of the opinion that a manager may make the difference of 2or 3 games a season with his in game and roster decisions. So if DT is the worst kind of manager in that regard, and we are 13 games under, then the best manager might have us 7 games under.

How many "aspects" are there to the job of major-league manager and how much of the total job is managing the clubhouse?

I mean, if someone (not Trembley) is a complete failure at everything else and yet somehow "keeps the clubhouse", is that enough?

[El Gordo]

Is DT getting the most out of this team?

Plus or minus 2 or 3 games yes. They aren't that good. We have two SP we can count on, a poor OF defense, a poor IF defense except for SS, weak hitting CIF's and a pretty good bullpen. The baserunning was problematic, but that has changed for the better IMO.

[PA Bird Fan]

How about Gary Allensen at Norfolk? (sp?)

[El Gordo]

How many "aspects" are there to the job of major-league manager and how much of the total job is managing the clubhouse?

I mean, if someone (not Trembley) is a complete failure at everything else and yet somehow "keeps the clubhouse", is that enough?

The other aspects come under the heading of in game management and roster decisions. The difference these kinds of decisions make is about 2-3 games one way or the other. That matters to a contender but not to a rebuilding club like the O's. Many of DT's decisions are constrained by what AM wants in terms of that. Walker is a good case in point. I think DT was compelled to use him because they were trying to move him. Same with Huff. If they weren't trying to move him, he would be sitting more. Pie would be playing more if we weren't seeing so many LHSP's and Reimold wasn't hitting again. By and large keeping the team focused in a year where we aren't expecting to win is the job IMO. If this team were truly unfocused, we wouldn't even be able to play Boston and NY, close. DT can't make Huff a better fielder nor can he stop Mora from declining with age, Wiggy from popping up, nor can he keep Adam Jones from forgetting the number of outs on occasion, and in the grand scheme of things this year, these kind of things don't matter all that much.

[Skeletor]

I don't understand how anyone can argue that Trembley is getting the most out of his team when two of the hitters in the heart of the lineup are having career worst years in their primes, an OF that was touted as one of the best defensive OF in the league prior to the year has STUNK defensively, the face of the franchise needs to be talked to about focus and effort to the point where it had to be made public that it was addressed, we are the worst baserunning team in the league, and a lot of the players have no idea about situational hitting.

Sure, players have slumps, but aren't managers judged on whether or not their team is meeting expectations. Not particularly in the win column with this team, but shouldn't we be looking at individual performance as well? Is it just a coincidence that vets with any sort of high-paying contract are underperforming under Trembley?