The benefits of a manager change...

[ledzepp8]

It was Tejada the year before that.

I love how a guy that doesn't hustle is, statistically, one of the best leadoff hitters in baseball

Yeah no kidding. I just love how some people on here can actually get it in there mind that guys who are slumping at the plate, are doing so because they don't care and that they should be punished for it.

I mean seriously, just last night you had Huff scorch a ball that the 1b made a good play on for a fielder's choice and he was slamming his hands on his helmet. Markakis smacked a ball that the RF made a good plat on at the wall and he kicked a little dirt as he rounded first. These guys clearly don't give a crap. Do people like JTrea really think that Huff doesn't care about the slump he's in, that he doesn't care about not coming through with RISP? It's just so silly.

[TJ Wrangler]

Berken had lost 8 straight decisions. Perhaps Trembley was trying to not let Berken ruin his good start by allowing him to pitch himself into a loss with another inning. If Dave had put him out there for the 7th and Berken gives up 3 runs, then the same people would be complaining that he shouldn't have been out there. Every manager the Orioles ever have is in a lose lose situation. They are constantly be second guessed.

No excuse for pulling a pitcher who wasn't struggling after 88 pitches and 6 innings. That's how you tax your bullpen, especially after you just went into extra innings the day before. The people who would complain for leaving Berken out there would have had no grounds for complaint, because Berken wasn't struggling and his pitch count still wasn't high. Hendrickson did a good job, but the point was that he had no business being out there. Babying Berken by pulling him when he was doing just fine is playing not to lose, not playing to win. That's the same fault that got Billick ran out of town and is a terrible quality for any manager of any sport to have.

Bottom line, you leave Berken in there at that point. He needs experience and the chance to finish a great outing by working into the late innings, not a baby sitter.

[JTrea81]

So you are advocating that a manager routinely call his players out in the media.

I'm advocating that he does everything he can to send a message to improve play. If he has to start fining people, then he should do that.

I don't think personally he's done all that he can to stop the uninspiring play.

[SilentJames]

No excuse for pulling a pitcher who wasn't struggling after 88 pitches and 6 innings. That's how you tax your bullpen, especially after you just went into extra innings the day before. The people who would complain for leaving Berken out there would have had no grounds for complaint, because Berken wasn't struggling and his pitch count still wasn't high. Hendrickson did a good job, but the point was that he had no business being out there. Babying Berken by pulling him when he was doing just fine is playing not to lose, not playing to win. That's the same fault that got Billick ran out of town and is a terrible quality for any manager of any sport to have.

Bottom line, you leave Berken in there at that point. He needs experience and the chance to finish a great outing by working into the late innings, not a baby sitter.

We didn't go into extras the day before.

Fine, I agree with everything you said - but it not something that is an uncommon occurrence in the game. And there is logic behind it.

[SilentJames]

I'm advocating that he does everything he can to send a message to improve play. If he has to start fining people, then he should do that.

I don't think personally he's done all that he can to stop the uninspiring play.

He can't fire anyone.

[JTrea81]

He can't fire anyone.

He can fine people. He can also can some of his coaches if they aren't sending the right message or players aren't listening to them.

[TJ Wrangler]

It was Tejada the year before that.

I love how a guy that doesn't hustle is, statistically, one of the best leadoff hitters in baseball

In what world do you think these guys think that losing is acceptable or that they would be okay with that?

What is this holding players accountable crap? You don't punish guys for slumping. You can't make somebody hit better.

These same talking points get beat into the ground.

-Roberts doesn't hustle

-Roberts sulks

-Markakis and Roberts aren't motivated

Those are the whipping boys this year, I believe it was Mora last year.

Like I said in another thread, I seriously can't wait for the Orioles to start winning so all these ridiculous threads might stop.

Well when you can make the observations from the stands frequently, then it becomes an issue. More so Roberts than Markakis, who I don't have much of a case against here.

Just to point it out, Callaspo was playing his heart out all night and got down of himself for not making plays he has no business making. He hustled hard and made the most out of everything that came his way. Roberts didn't seem to play with much hustle last night, something that has happened many other nights too. You don't have to hustle to be a great hitter, but you do need to hustle and play with some sort of energy when you mean so much to the team and the fans.

Funny side note, when Markakis was kicking dirt rounding first, it almost look like he was doing a jumping kick and just missed Huff. Guess it was just my angle, but it was good for a laugh.

[NewMarketSean]

The point is that the people that want to fire Trembley nowhave no real clue who they want to replace him with.

That is the problem. Its a lot of "perhaps" "maybe" "he sounds good". Dave Jauss was also bench coach for Dave Trembley, you honestly think things would be different?

I threw out Acta even though he's a teddy bear. But it's not our jobs to come up with a replacement. It's MacPhail's.

All this said, I don't even want Trembley fired. If I knew it would help the team, I'd want him gone, but that is all neither here nor there.

Going forward, though, I don't know if Trembley is the right guy anymore.

[NewMarketSean]

You missed my point. If they are such losers, the difference between DT and someone else isn't going to protect them. No manager makes that much of a difference. DT could go to the LAD's and Torre could come here and not that much would change.

You're right. I said in another post that all the talk I've been doing about replacing DT is hypothetical. I am not calling for his head. I am just starting to warm up to the thought of someone else managing the team.

But, if firing DT and bringing in Jauss or someone else to finish out the season gave us a better chance to stop the collapse, I would do it for the sake of the young players.

But then we'd be getting into a chicken or the egg argument.

[TJ Wrangler]

We didn't go into extras the day before.

Fine, I agree with everything you said - but it not something that is an uncommon occurrence in the game. And there is logic behind it.

Lol...well that's what I get for looking at the 7/28 box score instead of the 7/27 box score. My mistake there.

I know you agree with leaving Berken in here, but the fact that it's common and regarded as logical is kind of stupid in my opinion. If a starter is rolling and still has a low pitch count through 6, why take the risk and waste a reliever. Just leave the man in and let him get to the 7th. Many times Trembley has hooked a starter way too early and overworked his bullpen.

[SilentJames]

He can fine people. He can also can some of his coaches if they aren't sending the right message or players aren't listening to them.

How many managers fine players anymore these days? That is something that the FO does not the manager.

[NewMarketSean]

While leading the American League in doubles and rests in the top five in most offensive statistics for leadoff hitters including Runs, RBI, HR, Hits, SB. He is sixth in walks and OPS.

So yeah, he is totally dogging it.

Lier X said he was dogging it so I believe it. Other people have come on the board and said that they've had inside info that Roberts is known to dog it. Trembley himself said to the press he had a talk with Roberts about sulking and attitude issues. So yeah, he could be dogging it...ya think?

I am not saying Roberts is a bad player, that's incorrect. But don't sit there and spout off stats as a reason Roberts doesn't dog it because Albert Belle would have been a Hall of Famer if his career lasted longer and he was the king of dogging it.

[SilentJames]

Lol...well that's what I get for looking at the 7/28 box score instead of the 7/27 box score. My mistake there.

I know you agree with leaving Berken in here, but the fact that it's common and regarded as logical is kind of stupid in my opinion. If a starter is rolling and still has a low pitch count through 6, why take the risk and waste a reliever. Just leave the man in and let him get to the 7th. Many times Trembley has hooked a starter way too early and overworked his bullpen.

I disagree here. Most of the time its because the pitcher has needed almost 90+ pitches to get through the sixth.

The handfull of times Trembley might have had a quick hook are minuscule compared to the times that he has been forced to go to the pen before the sixth inning this year. That is what has killed our pen.

[SilentJames]

Lier X said he was dogging it so I believe it. Other people have come on the board and said that they've had inside info that Roberts is known to dog it. Trembley himself said to the press he had a talk with Roberts about sulking and attitude issues. So yeah, he could be dogging it...ya think?

I am not saying Roberts is a bad player, that's incorrect. But don't sit there and spout off stats as a reason Roberts doesn't dog it because Albert Belle would have been a Hall of Famer if his career lasted longer and he was the king of dogging it.

yeah he was also dealing with an upper-respiratory infection for the better part of two weeks.

Roberts is the latest whipping boy. Oh and look at that, Termbley addressed the issue.

[Mad Mark]

Has Trembley lost the clubhouse? If you feel he has, do you have evidence to support your feeling?

If he hasn't, then he stays to the end of the season, period. People who advocate firing him now are running away from something purely for the sake of running away from something. They haven't a legitimate clue of what they want to run to (other than hypothetical guys or guys who have zero interest in this job).

Trembley--like every other manager in MLB--should be evaluated at the end of every season. If at that point, AM feels he should go, then he should go. Otherwise, this is speculation...and crap speculation at that.