Why The Terps Will Never be Elite

[OregonBird]

Don't we normally have this discussion about midway through the season after the Terps lose a few clunkers that they should have won, then go on to somehow fight their way into a second tier bowl?

I truly believe there's plenty of money in the Baltimore/Washington area to go around. However, I also agree w/those that say its somewhat of a fair weather fanbase. Seeing how these are pro sports cities, a Terps team would have to do very, very well in order to sell out that stadium on a consistent basis. 7-5 or 8-4 every year won't cut it. Go 10-2 with a shot at a BCS game every year and I have no doubt the Terps would sell the place out. That was the trajectory the team was on when Fridge first came aboard.

There's also plenty of talent around within a 3 year drive of the campus. It's up to the coaches to run offenses and defenses that make the program successful, kids draftable, and give recruits something to get excited about. Hopefully that happens this year. Afterall, you won't get athletes in your program on offense if you run a Delaware Wing-T and go run, run, pass, punt.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. In our division the only team that should give the Terps problems are FSU b/c of their tradition, facilities and recruiting. There's no other program that I can say should be a legitimately better overall program than the Terps. My expectations are 7-5 or 8-4 in most years, a 9-3 or 10-2 year every few years, balanced out by a 6-6 every 4-5 years. Generally speaking, I expect Top 25 in 3 of 5 years.

[Birds of B'more]

Don't we normally have this discussion about midway through the season after the Terps lose a few clunkers that they should have won, then go on to somehow fight their way into a second tier bowl?

I truly believe there's plenty of money in the Baltimore/Washington area to go around. However, I also agree w/those that say its somewhat of a fair weather fanbase. Seeing how these are pro sports cities, a Terps team would have to do very, very well in order to sell out that stadium on a consistent basis. 7-5 or 8-4 every year won't cut it. Go 10-2 with a shot at a BCS game every year and I have no doubt the Terps would sell the place out. That was the trajectory the team was on when Fridge first came aboard.

There's also plenty of talent around within a 3 year drive of the campus. It's up to the coaches to run offenses and defenses that make the program successful, kids draftable, and give recruits something to get excited about. Hopefully that happens this year. Afterall, you won't get athletes in your program on offense if you run a Delaware Wing-T and go run, run, pass, punt.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. In our division the only team that should give the Terps problems are FSU b/c of their tradition, facilities and recruiting. There's no other program that I can say should be a legitimately better overall program than the Terps. My expectations are 7-5 or 8-4 in most years, a 9-3 or 10-2 year every few years, balanced out by a 6-6 every 4-5 years. Generally speaking, I expect Top 25 in 3 of 5 years.

If you drive for that long and can't find football talent, you need to switch to a new career.

[BaltBird 24]

If you drive for that long and can't find football talent' date=' you need to switch to a new career. [/quote']

Yeah, we'd be in pretty bad shape if we can't find any talent within a 3 year drive that is willing to play Maryland football. Hell, we could get Europeans driving across the land bridge from Russia to Alaska in that time.

[Why Not?]

Huh?

I see your point' date=' but there are exceptions. Look at Penn State. They draw 100,000+ for home games, and I promise you that all of those people aren't coming from State College and other rural parts of PA. Same goes for VA Tech and its 66,000+ stadium I bet.....do that many people even live in Blacksburg? I obviously have no supporting evidence, but I'm sure both of those programs draw a significant number of season ticket holders from the larger population centers within their state, and maybe even surrounding states. So it begs the question as to why UMd, which conveniently sits right in the middle of two metropolitan areas that have about 6 million people combined, and many of them with higher than average incomes, struggle to attract just 55,000? Even with two NFL teams you would think there are enough people and money to go around, especially with the Terps being a more affordable option than the NFL teams.

It's been said that the region is made up of mostly fair-weather fans, and I'll agree with that with the exception being for the NFL teams. Both the Ravens and Redskins sell out every game, even in down years. But that support hasn't extended to UMd football, despite the fact that the Terps and both NFL teams have had similar rates of on-field success since 2001, even though it is somewhat of an apples and oranges comparison.[/quote']

Penn State isn't an urban NE campus though. Western Pa. is one of the most football-crazy places in the country. Tech is far from urban, REALLY far. State College and Blacksburg have more in common with the midwestern college towns than any urban campuses.

You're making the assumption that places with large populations should fill college football stadiums. That isn't always the case, especially in the Northeast.

I don't think it's a matter of being fair-weather, it's not a part of the culture in this part of the country.

[Why Not?]

I would say people around USC have more to do than in the mid-atlantic, other than the NFL of course. But even when the NFL was in SoCal, USC had great attendance. Miami is another example of this.

I do agree with what you're saying, but other programs are able to overcome the strong competition for people's time/money.

Maryland outdrew Miami last year. Miami's attendance has never been at the levels one would expect considering their history.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/acc/2008-11-12-miami-attendance_N.htm

Even at USC, looking through some old media guides, it wasn't unusual for them to draw 45K as recently as 10 years ago. It wasn't anything like it is today.

[Danielos38]

I think it just boils down to tradition and culture.

First off, Maryland doesn't have close to the tradition that any of the elite programs nation wide have. We haven't won anything in any recruits lifetime. And, the problem is, it's nearly impossibe to create tradition. It takes year and years of consistent winning. Obviously, that's not easy.

Also, the culture of the school has a lot to do with the elite programs. At most of the elite programs in the country, especially in the south and midwest, football is a way of life rather than just a sport. If I were a recruit, I'd want to be a part of that. That's a feeling that Maryland will just never have, especially when basketball is the premier sport on campus. I mean, I'd want to play in front of 100,000 crazy fans packing the massive stadium rather than the 80% full, fairly small, Byrd.

Can Maryland be a consistent top 3 ACC team? I definitely think so. But can they be elite? I don't ever see that happening, unfortunately.

On the other hand, I think Maryland basketball could and will become elite. We have the tradition, the recruiting base, and the fan support to make that happen. Plus, top notch facilities don't hurt.

(Sorry to take the thread off topic)

[Birds of B'more]

Penn State isn't an urban NE campus though. Western Pa. is one of the most football-crazy places in the country. Tech is far from urban, REALLY far. State College and Blacksburg have more in common with the midwestern college towns than any urban campuses.

You're making the assumption that places with large populations should fill college football stadiums. That isn't always the case, especially in the Northeast.

I don't think it's a matter of being fair-weather, it's not a part of the culture in this part of the country.

My point was that schools like Penn St and VT, likely draw a lot of fans from large population centers, where there are in fact many other options available for sporting events....and much more convenient options. I'd really be interested in knowing how many PSU season ticket holders are from areas like Philly, Pittsburgh or northern NJ/NY. Same goes for VT season ticket holders in the DC area. All of those metro areas have local pro teams to follow, but those fans choose to drive several hours to watch college football. Meanwhile, UMd is much more convenient to two metro areas, but doesn't draw the big crowds consistently. Which leads me to believe the reasoning is that UMd hasn't won like those other two schools have over the years.

[Birds of B'more]

Maryland outdrew Miami last year. Miami's attendance has never been at the levels one would expect considering their history.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/acc/2008-11-12-miami-attendance_N.htm

Even at USC, looking through some old media guides, it wasn't unusual for them to draw 45K as recently as 10 years ago. It wasn't anything like it is today.

Miami's problem is that they now play in a stadium that is many miles away from campus. And while the Orange Bowl was off-campus too, it was only a couple miles away from Coral Gables. Also, Miami doesn't have nearly the level of funding that UMd and most other ACC programs have. I've never seen them personally, but I hear their on-campus football facilities rate among the worst in the ACC. I guess while a lot of their football alumni stay close to the program, they don't tend to open their wallets much. :scratchchinhmm:

Anyway, I would think that Miami is a bit of an anomaly that actually lends support to the premise of the OP. It's location helps it a lot....one because South Fla arguably has more blue chip HS football players per sq mile than any other part of the country, and two it is a destination city that kids from other parts of the country find appealing. But they have also had a succession of very good coaches who could convince those kids to go there...from Howard Schnellenberger and Jimmy Johnson to Butch Davis and now Randy Shannon.

[Why Not?]

My point was that schools like Penn St and VT' date=' likely draw a lot of fans from large population centers, where there are in fact many other options available for sporting events....and much more convenient options. I'd really be interested in knowing how many PSU season ticket holders are from areas like Philly, Pittsburgh or northern NJ/NY. Same goes for VT season ticket holders in the DC area. All of those metro areas have local pro teams to follow, but those fans choose to drive several hours to watch college football. Meanwhile, UMd is much more convenient to two metro areas, but doesn't draw the big crowds consistently. Which leads me to believe the reasoning is that UMd hasn't won like those other two schools have over the years.[/quote']

Yeah, you're right. I know people come from far and wide to take in games in Morgantown, including a lot of folks from DC and Pittsburgh. I'm sure that schools like Nebraska and Texas draw plenty of people from the larger cities in their region as well. Georgia

Every school's situation is unique and the reasons for good or poor attendance are far from simple. Obviously consistent winning is a pretty big factor.

I just don't know if being in a large metro area is necessarily a plus. There aren't many urban campuses that draw well, especially in the Northeast. I'm not really sure why that is, but it seems to be the case. Maybe people would rather drive out to a place like Blacksburg than drive in to a place like College Park.

USC and UCLA seem to be exceptions. But few of the top-drawing programs are in major metro areas.

[Why Not?]

Miami's problem is that they now play in a stadium that is many miles away from campus. And while the Orange Bowl was off-campus too' date=' it was only a couple miles away from Coral Gables. Also, Miami doesn't have nearly the level of funding that UMd and most other ACC programs have. I've never seen them personally, but I hear their on-campus football facilities rate among the worst in the ACC. I guess while a lot of their football alumni stay close to the program, they don't tend to open their wallets much. :scratchchinhmm:

Anyway, I would think that Miami is a bit of an anomaly that actually lends support to the premise of the OP. It's location helps it a lot....one because South Fla arguably has more blue chip HS football players per sq mile than any other part of the country, and two it is a destination city that kids from other parts of the country find appealing. But they have also had a succession of very good coaches who could convince those kids to go there...from Howard Schnellenberger and Jimmy Johnson to Butch Davis and now Randy Shannon.[/quote']

Sure, Miami is a power because of its location. No argument here. What percentage of people would rather live in P.G. County than chill on Miami Beach!!?

I think Miami also suffers because it's a relatively small school. I think they have fewer than 10K undergrads. It's hard to compete (financially/facilities-wise) with a monster school like Maryland that graduates nearly three times as many people every spring.

[Birds of B'more]

Sure, Miami is a power because of its location. No argument here. What percentage of people would rather live in P.G. County than chill on Miami Beach!!?

I think Miami also suffers because it's a relatively small school. I think they have fewer than 10K undergrads. It's hard to compete (financially/facilities-wise) with a monster school like Maryland that graduates nearly three times as many people every spring.

Definitely. The sheer numbers of alumni help the bigger schools like Maryland vs smaller private schools like Miami. Still, I would have thought with all the Miami football alums that made it big in the NFL that the football program would be better off financially...especially considering how close those guys stay to the program after leaving.

[Why Not?]

Definitely. The sheer numbers of alumni help the bigger schools like Maryland vs smaller private schools like Miami. Still' date=' I would have thought with all the Miami football alums that made it big in the NFL that the football program would be better off financially...especially considering how close those guys stay to the program after leaving.[/quote']

Those former players probably do contribute. But nothing beats an army of ho-hum professionals giving a couple of hundred bucks apiece.