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Adrian Gonzalez - Trade Target in 2010?


wildbillhiccup

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Everyone talks about "developing" or signing a legitimate firstbaseman in the offseason. What about putting together a trade package for Adrian Gonzalez next season. There's no question the Pads will be looking to move him as the trade deadline approaches. I think Gonzalez, playing in a hitter's park like OPACY, could very well match Teixiera's production going forward.

We've grown the arms, now it's time to buy (or trade) for the bats. What would it take to land A-Gon? The Pads need EVERYTHING, so they'll probably be looking for quantity. Maybe one of our big three SPs, plus a collection of lower level prospects? Get ir dun.

You have to understand that trading our "grown arms" is counterproductive to our organizational plan. It has been seen time and time again (Smoltz? Penny? even Sabathia to an extent) that not every pitcher can come in and pitch in the AL East from another division...they have to be "grown" into doing so. Andy Macphail has expressed this numerous times. He has acquired talent and developed them under our watch in the minor leagues, grooming them into their eventual roles as members of our rotation, and you want to trade them? Don't get me wrong, Adrian Gonzalez is a great player, but in 3 years, he will be 30 and on the proverbial decline, while our young gun pitchers that we've traded away will have plenty of youth left.

The Adrian Gonzalez option is one for the impatient, one for the fans of old who thought players like Tejada and Belle would single-handedly out-produce the opposition. It is the option that will fail because one offensive powerhouse does not make up for the fact that the Orioles' pitchers have SURRENDERED SECOND MOST EARNED RUNS IN ALL OF BASEBALL. I don't care if you have Babe Ruth in your lineup, that's a heck of a hole to climb out of. Again, developing the pitching that will keep us in games should be the first and foremost priority of this organization and I've been more than pleased with AM's progress in that regard.

We have the best young outfield in all of baseball, the best young catcher in all of baseball, and one of the best stockpiles of young pitching in all of baseball, can we not see what they become before we jump the gun on a trade that we may regret?

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You have to understand that trading our "grown arms" is counterproductive to our organizational plan. It has been seen time and time again (Smoltz? Penny? even Sabathia to an extent) that not every pitcher can come in and pitch in the AL East from another division...they have to be "grown" into doing so. Andy Macphail has expressed this numerous times. He has acquired talent and developed them under our watch in the minor leagues, grooming them into their eventual roles as members of our rotation, and you want to trade them? Don't get me wrong, Adrian Gonzalez is a great player, but in 3 years, he will be 30 and on the proverbial decline, while our young gun pitchers that we've traded away will have plenty of youth left.

The Adrian Gonzalez option is one for the impatient, one for the fans of old who thought players like Tejada and Belle would single-handedly out-produce the opposition. It is the option that will fail because one offensive powerhouse does not make up for the fact that the Orioles' pitchers have SURRENDERED SECOND MOST EARNED RUNS IN ALL OF BASEBALL. I don't care if you have Babe Ruth in your lineup, that's a heck of a hole to climb out of. Again, developing the pitching that will keep us in games should be the first and foremost priority of this organization and I've been more than pleased with AM's progress in that regard.

We have the best young outfield in all of baseball, the best young catcher in all of baseball, and one of the best stockpiles of young pitching in all of baseball, can we not see what they become before we jump the gun on a trade that we may regret?

Then how do you suggest we acquire bats? We could have a staff of cy young winner's, but if we only score 1 run a game we'll finish 500. the whole point of stokcpiling young pitching is to give us bargaining chips to land the other pieces.

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That's a possiblity or a Matt Holliday.

This team reminds me of the Celtics which wallowed for years not willing to commit to big FAs, then they trade for Garnett and get Ray Allen. and instantly they are the hottest ticket in Boston besides the Sox.

This is the type of thinking that makes me crazy. You CANNOT compare basketball and baseball...EVER. Basketball sees 5 men on the court where one player can (AND DOES) make a huge difference. The Cavs without Lebron James would fail, as would the Lakers without Kobe. However, the Angels have been without Vlad for a huge chunk of the season and they've managed to stay in first place. The Twins didn't have Mauer for a month and still managed to stay competitive. The sports don't compare...and it's thinking like that, that one guy makes all the difference that will cause us to FAIL.

Last I checked, Texas didn't make the playoffs with A-Rod hitting 50 Homeruns per year. Baseball is a sport built from the foundation, no one player, not even Pujols, is good enough to carry a lousy team...

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Then how do you suggest we acquire bats? We could have a staff of cy young winner's, but if we only score 1 run a game we'll finish 500. the whole point of stokcpiling young pitching is to give us bargaining chips to land the other pieces.

I think you underestimate how much an upgrade over Huff/Mora will affect this team.

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This is the type of thinking that makes me crazy. You CANNOT compare basketball and baseball...EVER. Basketball sees 5 men on the court where one player can (AND DOES) make a huge difference. The Cavs without Lebron James would fail, as would the Lakers without Kobe. However, the Angels have been without Vlad for a huge chunk of the season and they've managed to stay in first place. The Twins didn't have Mauer for a month and still managed to stay competitive. The sports don't compare...and it's thinking like that, that one guy makes all the difference that will cause us to FAIL.

Last I checked, Texas didn't make the playoffs with A-Rod hitting 50 Homeruns per year. Baseball is a sport built from the foundation, no one player, not even Pujols, is good enough to carry a lousy team...

Well you have obviously never seen PAUL BAKO with a bat! ;)

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This is the type of thinking that makes me crazy. You CANNOT compare basketball and baseball...EVER. Basketball sees 5 men on the court where one player can (AND DOES) make a huge difference. The Cavs without Lebron James would fail, as would the Lakers without Kobe. However, the Angels have been without Vlad for a huge chunk of the season and they've managed to stay in first place. The Twins didn't have Mauer for a month and still managed to stay competitive. The sports don't compare...and it's thinking like that, that one guy makes all the difference that will cause us to FAIL.

Last I checked, Texas didn't make the playoffs with A-Rod hitting 50 Homeruns per year. Baseball is a sport built from the foundation, no one player, not even Pujols, is good enough to carry a lousy team...

The Orioles acquired or signed Scott Erickson, Bobby Bonilla/Eric Davis, Raffy Palmeiro, Roberto Alomar, BJ Surhoff and Randy Myers and were competitors for three out of 5 years from 94-98. Orioles baseball was the talk of baseball.

No reason we can't do something like that again IMO...

But we had to make that one move and splash - Palmeiro that got us there. Signing Raffy took the Orioles to a new level IMO. He was the anchor of that offense. We need that anchor

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The Orioles acquired or signed Scott Erickson, Bobby Bonilla/Eric Davis, Raffy Palmeiro, Roberto Alomar, BJ Surhoff and Randy Myers and were competitors for three out of 5 years from 94-98. Orioles baseball was the talk of baseball.

No reason we can't do something like that again IMO...

But we had to make that one move and splash - Palmeiro that got us there. Signing Raffy took the Orioles to a new level IMO.

He was the anchor of that offense. We need that anchor.

IMO Prince Fielder would be that player.

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The Orioles acquired or signed Scott Erickson, Bobby Bonilla/Eric Davis, Raffy Palmeiro, Roberto Alomar, BJ Surhoff and Randy Myers and were competitors for three out of 5 years from 94-98. Orioles baseball was the talk of baseball.

No reason we can't do something like that again IMO...

But we had to make that one move and splash - Palmeiro that got us there. Signing Raffy took the Orioles to a new level IMO. He was the anchor of that offense. We need that anchor

Again, we've surrendered the 2nd most Earned Runs in all of baseball...no offense can overcome that deficit. That figure reflects solely on the pitching situation, and IMO that is what is causing us to lose and requires the greatest attention going forward.

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The Orioles acquired or signed Scott Erickson, Bobby Bonilla/Eric Davis, Raffy Palmeiro, Roberto Alomar, BJ Surhoff and Randy Myers and were competitors for three out of 5 years from 94-98. Orioles baseball was the talk of baseball.

No reason we can't do something like that again IMO...

But we had to make that one move and splash - Palmeiro that got us there. Signing Raffy took the Orioles to a new level IMO. He was the anchor of that offense. We need that anchor

And what did we end up with? Two playoff appearances, no pennants, no World Series appearances, and a huge payroll attached to a team of 35-year-old washed up veterans.

I'll take my team with a solid core of young, cost-controlled players and a key free agent or two added when the moment is right, thanks.

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And what did we end up with? Two playoff appearances, no pennants, no World Series appearances, and a huge payroll attached to a team of 35-year-old washed up veterans.

I'll take my team with a solid core of young, cost-controlled players and a key free agent or two added when the moment is right, thanks.

As I pointed out, there was no farm system to support that team, nor did we draft correctly to supplement it. We had nobody to take the veterans places when they were ready for FA.

The organization is better shaped now to support a build up of that nature IMO. As we can draft replacements for those veterans, and when their contracts are up, we will have a replacement.

And we might have had three playoff appearances had there not been a strike in 1994. The Orioles were within striking distance.

With the way we are building now, there is no guarantee of a playoff appearance.

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This team isn't close enough to give up what is necessary to get Gonzalez. It is too much of a crapshoot who will get hurt, who will succeed, and who will fail. A deal for Gonzalez is one that you make when you have enough established players to be sure he will get you over the top.

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The Orioles acquired or signed Scott Erickson, Bobby Bonilla/Eric Davis, Raffy Palmeiro, Roberto Alomar, BJ Surhoff and Randy Myers and were competitors for three out of 5 years from 94-98. Orioles baseball was the talk of baseball.

No reason we can't do something like that again IMO...

But we had to make that one move and splash - Palmeiro that got us there. Signing Raffy took the Orioles to a new level IMO. He was the anchor of that offense. We need that anchor

Not all those moves were made in the same off-season, which is what you're calling for here.

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Not all those moves were made in the same off-season, which is what you're calling for here.

I'm calling for a buildup over two offseasons.

Get AGon, Hardy and Lackey this offseason for example and then more pieces next offseason.

Target 2011 as the first year you want to compete. It's going to be 2012 or 2013 at the earliest if all the young players reach their potential the way we are building now IMO, later than that if any of them falter, especially the young arms.

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I'm calling for a buildup over two offseasons.

Get AGon, Hardy and Lackey this offseason for example and then more pieces next offseason.

Target 2011 as the first year you want to compete. It's going to be 2012 or 2013 at the earliest if all the young players reach their potential the way we are building now IMO, later than that if any of them falter, especially the young arms.

If 2011 is the year you want to compete, why bother trading a bunch of young talent who can help you compete in the future in order to help your win total in 2010? Seems pointless to me.

Guys like Dunn and Pena will likely be available in the off-season prior to 2011. I'd rather wait until we're actually on the cusp of competing before dealing away such good young talent.

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I'm calling for a buildup over two offseasons.

Get AGon, Hardy and Lackey this offseason for example and then more pieces next offseason.

Target 2011 as the first year you want to compete. It's going to be 2012 or 2013 at the earliest if all the young players reach their potential the way we are building now IMO, later than that if any of them falter, especially the young arms.

So you're saying that it'll be at least 2014 before the O's compete if any of the young arms falter? That's why it's sometimes hard to take you seriously. It was three years between the Tigers losing 119 games and being in the World Series, yet you think the O's will be much less successful unless they follow your plan of trading the farm for lots and lots of expensive, high-end talent.

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