Jake Arrieta's inconcsitencies....

[allstar1579]

Dumb question but how would becoming a closer *improve* Arrieta's chances at the ML level. I've always been curious about that.

Not many guys naturally have that mentality it takes, he does. He's got a great FB/SL combo and a couple other offerings to sprinkle in to keep guys off balanced. He throws high 90's, and his best stuff usually comes in the first inning or two. He wouldn't just be a guy moving to the BP because he couldn't handle starting, because he can, but he could be a good starter or an elite closer, think Papelbon.

[allstar1579]

One of Hernandez, Arrieta, or Erbe are going to end up being our closer, and all 3 have great chances of being very good ones.

If Hernandez sticks in the rotation, and I think he's got a great chance of doing that, then Arrieta breaking in next year in the bullpen is a very realistic possibility.

A decent SP is of more value than all but the most elite of closers in general, but if we already have 4-5 very good starters, then a shut down closer would probably be more valuable to us.

I think you can take Erbe out of that discussion. He doesn't have the velocity for it, and I like him much better as a starter.

[TheBandit]

I think you can take Erbe out of that discussion. He doesn't have the velocity for it, and I like him much better as a starter.

Velocity means nothing. Go look up JP Howell.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=8245&position=P#pitchtype

Fastball = 85.4 mph average

K/9 = 10.54

[allstar1579]

Velocity means nothing. Go look up JP Howell.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=8245&position=P#pitchtype

Fastball = 85.4 mph average

K/9 = 10.54

One, Howell is all smoke and mirrors. Two, he's got better movement than Erbe. Three, Arrieta is a special case when talking about him moving to closer, it's like he was made for it. Erbe, not so much, and he is better when he can feel out his stuff, and work off of whatever isn't working that day. I have yet to see a day when all 3 of his main pitches are working. Can't get away with that as a closer, you leave one over the plate, and game over.

[TheBandit]

One, Howell is all smoke and mirrors. Two, he's got better movement than Erbe. Three, Arrieta is a special case when talking about him moving to closer, it's like he was made for it. Erbe, not so much, and he is better when he can feel out his stuff, and work off of whatever isn't working that day. I have yet to see a day when all 3 of his main pitches are working. Can't get away with that as a closer, you leave one over the plate, and game over.

First, your first point is irrelevant and is thrown out.

Second, your third point is pure opinionated.

Third, when you are a closer, you become a 2 pitch pitcher. If you have 4 pitches, that is awesome, but you go into the game using fastball + best off-speed pitch. If you need the other pitch, you pull it out. He doesn't need all 3 to be successful.

JP Howell is fastball-curve-change up pitcher. It's for real; there are no mirrors and by the looks of the gun, there's no smoke either. One note on his change-up, it has almost identical movement to his fastball but it is 6mph slower.

[allstar1579]

First, your first point is irrelevant and is thrown out.

Second, your third point is pure opinionated.

Third, when you are a closer, you become a 2 pitch pitcher. If you have 4 pitches, that is awesome, but you go into the game using fastball + best off-speed pitch. If you need the other pitch, you pull it out. He doesn't need all 3 to be successful.

JP Howell is fastball-curve-change up pitcher. It's for real; there are no mirrors and by the looks of the gun, there's no smoke either. One note on his change-up, it has almost identical movement to his fastball but it is 6mph slower.

First, no one's opinion or post is thrown out on a message board because you say so.

Second, it may be an opinion, but that doesn't make it less valid, there are others high up in the organization, and other scouts who feel the same way.

Third, the more pitches you have, the better pitcher you are, regardless of pitching rotation hierarchy. Smoke and mirrors is an expression used when a guy is getting results with no clear cut tool for getting said results. A change up that is only 6 mph slower than a fastball is batting practice fodder. A fastball that is consistently around 85mph is what junior varsity HS players hit. When a guy has a dominant fastball, you will see him throw that the majority and maybe throw in an offspeed pitch here and there, see Papelbon, Jonathan to see the 85% FB 7% slider 7% everything else ratio. Erbe does not have a dominant fastball and therefore needs more than 2 pitches to get by to keep guys from sitting on the fastball or slider.

[Leitch]

I'd say that Arrieta to closer makes Arrieta more likely to be successful because Every Pitcher to bullpen makes Every Pitcher more likely to be successful.

If you made Johan Santana your closer he might not ever give up a run.

[QSII]

I'd say that Arrieta to closer makes Arrieta more likely to be successful because Every Pitcher to bullpen makes Every Pitcher more likely to be successful.

If you made Johan Santana your closer he might not ever give up a run.

Wrong place and time for this comment, but a lot of people couldn't understand why they didn't do that with Ponson. He might have been the poster boy for closer conversion, instead of the poster bad boy and getting pounded. Even a stone drunk can throw a dozen pitches every couple of days, and he had the stuff. Even after Cleveland(?) took our own Mesa and did the same trick very well.

[TheBandit]

First, no one's opinion or post is thrown out on a message board because you say so.

Second, it may be an opinion, but that doesn't make it less valid, there are others high up in the organization, and other scouts who feel the same way.

Third, the more pitches you have, the better pitcher you are, regardless of pitching rotation hierarchy. Smoke and mirrors is an expression used when a guy is getting results with no clear cut tool for getting said results. A change up that is only 6 mph slower than a fastball is batting practice fodder. A fastball that is consistently around 85mph is what junior varsity HS players hit. When a guy has a dominant fastball, you will see him throw that the majority and maybe throw in an offspeed pitch here and there, see Papelbon, Jonathan to see the 85% FB 7% slider 7% everything else ratio. Erbe does not have a dominant fastball and therefore needs more than 2 pitches to get by to keep guys from sitting on the fastball or slider.

First, when I respond to a response from you to a message I posted, I can throw out opinions as I see fit.

Second, personal opinions are nice but without stats or scouting reports or sources to back-up your information they are nothing but pitter patter on my roof.

Third, Erbe has been extremely dominant at AA as a starter which leads me to believe he could go either way the organization chooses. If you are dominant, it really doesn't matter the role and starting is harder than relieving.

Fourth, this is fun.

[allstar1579]

First, when I respond to a response from you to a message I posted, I can throw out opinions as I see fit.

Second, personal opinions are nice but without stats or scouting reports or sources to back-up your information they are nothing but pitter patter on my roof.

Third, Erbe has been extremely dominant at AA as a starter which leads me to believe he could go either way the organization chooses. If you are dominant, it really doesn't matter the role and starting is harder than relieving.

Fourth, this is fun.

First, you can ignore all you want, you can't make them magically go away.

Second, what do you think I do when I go to all of these games? I have been putting the scouting reports together on these guys. So you must have a tin roof because that pitter patter just got really loud.

Third, Erbe has been far from dominant if you went back and read my game by game reports on him. His velocity is down 4-5 mph this year, so he's just learning how to pitch with his secondary pitches more than just trying to blow the high fastball past people. He's had to work hard for his wins, going for the strikeouts and getting the high pitch counts as result. His control has been very off, usually a different pitch each outing.

Fourth, how did we get debating Erbe in the Arrieta thread?

[ChaosLex]

"You must spread some Reputation..."

[QBsILLEST1]

HAHA this thread is great!

[LookinUp]

First, when I respond to a response from you to a message I posted, I can throw out opinions as I see fit.

Second, personal opinions are nice but without stats or scouting reports or sources to back-up your information they are nothing but pitter patter on my roof.

Third, Erbe has been extremely dominant at AA as a starter which leads me to believe he could go either way the organization chooses. If you are dominant, it really doesn't matter the role and starting is harder than relieving.

Fourth, this is fun.

Much like baseball, this site pays some respect to posters who have stuck around for a while. We do it through rep and through the little category below your name. You are listed as a Bluefield Oriole. AllStar is listed as, well, an All-Star. For some, these rankings are a measure of longevity or activity more than knowledge. That's not the case for AllStar though.

So, on this site, you're sort of like Ryan Palsha (pitcher - Bluefield O's) calling out Mark Buehrle (All Star pitcher). It's not that your opinion isn't welcome, because I'm sure Palsha has something to say. It's that a guy like Palsha shouldn't be dismissive of what Buehrle is saying.

[QBsILLEST1]

Much like baseball, this site pays some respect to posters who have stuck around for a while. We do it through rep and through the little category below your name. You are listed as a Bluefield Oriole. AllStar is listed as, well, an All-Star. For some, these rankings are a measure of longevity or activity more than knowledge. That's not the case for AllStar though.

So, on this site, you're sort of like Ryan Palsha (pitcher - Bluefield O's) calling out Mark Buehrle (All Star pitcher). It's not that your opinion isn't welcome, because I'm sure Palsha has something to say. It's that a guy like Palsha shouldn't be dismissive of what Buehrle is saying.

Very well said

[TheBandit]

Much like baseball, this site pays some respect to posters who have stuck around for a while. We do it through rep and through the little category below your name. You are listed as a Bluefield Oriole. AllStar is listed as, well, an All-Star. For some, these rankings are a measure of longevity or activity more than knowledge. That's not the case for AllStar though.

So, on this site, you're sort of like Ryan Palsha (pitcher - Bluefield O's) calling out Mark Buehrle (All Star pitcher). It's not that your opinion isn't welcome, because I'm sure Palsha has something to say. It's that a guy like Palsha shouldn't be dismissive of what Buehrle is saying.

I disregard everything you just said. I can go into any of these threads and make several stupid posts that wouldn't be considered spam and rack up the amount of posts that I have made. When this happens, at 100 I'll become Aberdeen, at 250 Delmarva, at 500 Frederick or something along those lines. I belong to other forums with the same thing.

You know what the best part is? At all of them, they react the same way:

"Oh, you have only made 20 posts; you obviously don't know what you're talking about and you should listen to the guys who have the most posts on the forum. They are veterans and you are a nub."

Guess what, I argue and debate with them too because I'm opinionated, and I don't care what unwritten rule you guys want to go by to try and sort out who has good information and who doesn't. You have no idea my knowledge level of the game or the players involved, and instead of querying me, you want me to shut my mouth and move on. Honestly, I don't care, but I laugh that you think the number of posts someone has made matters to me.

The only thing that matters to me is the information they provide. If I tell you Arrieta sucks as a starter and is destined to be a reliever, you will ask me why. If I had 10,000 posts and said Arrieta sucks as a starter and is destined to be a reliever, you wouldn't ask me why? You would just trust me?

Again, without data or scouting reports, any claim you make can easily be disregarded by people like me. I make arguments based on those such things and any opinions you have I take with a grain of salt. It's my style, and I suggest you get used to it.

And if you don't respect me, I really don't care.

All-Star, I hope you have figured out I do have fun with my responses, and I do value your opinions but I like to see evidence in some fashion. You've been playful in your responses, and it was fun. We'll do it again.