What would you offer for Adrian Gonzalez?

[JTrea81]

When you're talking about trading our pitching for Adrian Gonzalez I'd say it's very pertinent...Any 1st grader could tell you that if a team gives up the most Earned Runs in all of baseball, has the highest Batting Average against, and has the highest team ERA, there is zero chance that they will compete...not even an all star team could post enough runs to overcome that deficit. Do you realize what this means?

How on earth could trading away the pitching, the solution to our bottom dwelling, the worst statistical category of the Orioles, be the answer to the reason why we don't compete? The thought is so asinine it makes me sick.

...as is the fact that you consider the two unrelated.

Because there is a chance that our pitching will not reach its potential and it's better to trade those arms now while they still have maximum trade value.

Gonzalez is also one of the best fielding 1B men in MLB so he actually helps the pitching by generating offense and providing good defense.

The rotation can also survive without Tillman if we sign a good FA starter.

[JTrea81]

I'd rather try to sign Gonzalez or Fielder when they become FAs. I'd also give 50 rep points to stop all O's/Gonzalez threads for 18 months.

This is what we said about Teixeira and look what happened. No premium FA bat is going to want to come to Baltimore unless we make the playoffs the year before IMO, not with Boston, NYY and the Mets all having $ come off the books in the next few offseasons. And we are going to need a power bat to make the playoffs.

[Dr. Andrews]

Because there is a chance that our pitching will not reach its potential and it's better to trade those arms now while they still have maximum trade value.

Gonzalez is also one of the best fielding 1B men in MLB so he actually helps the pitching by generating offense and providing good defense.

The rotation can also survive without Tillman if we sign a good FA starter.

I see a bunch of categories that we are the worst in, and a bunch of prospects in position to correct those categories...and you want to trade them. Why would you TRADE what you NEED? It makes no sense...I understand that their value is high, but that is because they have proven themselves at various levels of baseball, which is something that most of our pitching prospects don't do...I guess you can be a pessimist and think that they'll flop, but I, for one, think that we have a serious perennial contending rotation on our hands and it makes no sense to give that up for a guy that will be 30 by the time we MIGHT compete (considering we sign pitchers to fill the void of those we traded).

You're setting this franchise back if you do that...we've rebuilt to this point, and you want to take a step back? Are you some Yankees or Sox fan in disguise? Honestly...The mindset that we're a first basemen away from competing (which is what you're inferring...that AGonz will fix everything) is complete nonsense. We'd still suck this year even if we had Tex...our pitching is THE WORST in all of baseball...hitting doesn't correct that.

[LookinUp]

This is what we said about Teixeira and look what happened. No premium FA bat is going to want to come to Baltimore unless we make the playoffs the year before IMO, not with Boston, NYY and the Mets all having $ come off the books in the next few offseasons. And we are going to need a power bat to make the playoffs.

I know how you feel about AGon. I just don't have a hard-on for power hitting first basemen. I'd be willing to pay for an established one, but I basically think you can find one much easier than many other positions.

AGon would be nice, but not at the cost of our top young pitching prospects.

[SteveA]

I think it would take Tillman or Matusz ....Matusz of course pitched his college ball in San Diego and would be a draw there. And Tillman appears to be a fly ball pitcher who would just be AWESOME in Petco.

Now would I be willing to give one of them up? Man, AG can walk after 2011, right? So it would be getting 2 years of AG vs 5 to 6 of Tillman or Matusz. I don't think I can pull that trigger.

[carolinaoriole]

This is what we said about Teixeira and look what happened. No premium FA bat is going to want to come to Baltimore unless we make the playoffs the year before IMO, not with Boston, NYY and the Mets all having $ come off the books in the next few offseasons. And we are going to need a power bat to make the playoffs.

I agree that we will have to land a power bat via a trade

But Tillman I would not give in trade.

[jdwilde1]

The truth of the matter is, we have the highest ERA in all of baseball and give up the most Runs...Unless Adrian Gonzalez can hit for 60 homeruns and 200 RBIs, we're STILL going to be at a deficit unless we do something about the pitching...and that "something" is NOT trading away our highest rated pitching prospects since Mussina.

I compared the ranks of our pitching prospects to the ranks of prospects in 2006 to see how they turned out...and the similarly ranked players to 2008's Tillman, Matusz, and Arrieta were 2006's Cain, Lester, and Pelfrey...an addition like THAT is what will propel this team to the next level, not one first basemen.

I don't even see how you can go to ESPN's stat page, bring up "team pitching", see that we are in the bottom of every category, and still muster enough brain power to proclaim that we need to trade our pitching talent for HITTING. It takes a special kind of person to do that.

Are you serious? First, I never said anything about who I would trade. I asked the question what would you give up. From your post it appears that you would not give up any of the O's upper level pitching prospects. Fine, that's your opinion, but why would you feel the need to make personal attacks is beyond me. It's low class.

Second, you can be assured that all of the prospects aren't going to make it in the bigs, let alone become key components to winning team. Gonzo is only a year older than Markakis and would solidiy a gaping whole at first base and the clean-up spot for the next 6-7 years. You may not agree w/ making the deal, but to argue that its not worth discussion is absurd.

Tillman, Matsuz and Bergy should be untradable, but everyone else should be on the table. If AM could pull Gonzo for Arrieta, Erbe/Patton, Snyder/Bell/Pie and a couple lesser prospects he should do it. Even w/ moving 2 upper echelon minor league arms the O's are still stacked w/ depth on the farm and will continue to replenish the system.

[Dr. Andrews]

I think it would take Tillman or Matusz ....Matusz of course pitched his college ball in San Diego and would be a draw there. And Tillman appears to be a fly ball pitcher who would just be AWESOME in Petco.

Now would I be willing to give one of them up? Man, AG can walk after 2011, right? So it would be getting 2 years of AG vs 5 to 6 of Tillman or Matusz. I don't think I can pull that trigger.

ANDDDDD he will be almost 30 in 2 years so his best years will be behind him by the time we're ready to compete (assuming the fact that we give up the most runs/have highest team ERA/have highest BAA disappear somehow without pitching help).

[Dr. Andrews]

Are you serious? First, I never said anything about who I would trade. I asked the question what would you give up. From your post it appears that you would not give up any of the O's upper level pitching prospects. Fine, that's your opinion, but why would you feel the need to make personal attacks is beyond me. It's low class.

Second, you can be assured that all of the prospects aren't going to make it in the bigs, let alone become key components to winning team. Gonzo is only a year older than Markakis and would solidiy a gaping whole at first base and the clean-up spot for the next 6-7 years. You may not agree w/ making the deal, but to argue that its not worth discussion is absurd.

Tillman, Matsuz and Bergy should be untradable, but everyone else should be on the table. If AM could pull Gonzo for Arrieta, Erbe/Patton, Snyder/Bell/Pie and a couple lesser prospects he should do it. Even w/ moving 2 upper echelon minor league arms the O's are still stacked w/ depth on the farm and will continue to replenish the system.

Let's say you need a car with good gas mileage because you have a 2 hour commute to work everyday. Would you trade in your brand new Civic for a used Hummer with 100,000 miles on it?

The answer is no, while the Hummer is the new flashy thing to drive around town, the Civic fits your long term commuting needs and it will last longer, as it is brand new.

If you haven't picked up on the analogy, think of Tillman, Matusz, or Arrieta (what AGonz will cost) as the Civic and AGonz as the Hummer...

Can we win a World Series in the next 2 years before AGonz's contract is up with the current worst pitching staff in baseball? Probably not...so why trade the long term solution for a short term problem?

PS. My post wasn't directed at you...It was directed at the mindset. I just get fed up with people who ignore the fact that we field the worst pitching rotation in all of baseball...they think with the minds of contenders who trade their prospects for established players...we are not a contender, not a 1b away from contending, and are in no position to even think in such a way...If an AGonz trade was the clear, obvious thing to do, like a lot of you seem to think, a smart baseball guy like AM would have done it already...but obviously, he hasn't, and maybe some of you should assess the reasons why that is. Personally, I'd rather trade someone not named Tillman, Arrieta, or Matusz for SD's other 1st basemen, Kyle Blanks. We can get him for a lot cheaper, a lot longer, and he still has the best years of his career ahead of him.

[jdwilde1]

I see a bunch of categories that we are the worst in, and a bunch of prospects in position to correct those categories...and you want to trade them. Why would you TRADE what you NEED? It makes no sense...I understand that their value is high, but that is because they have proven themselves at various levels of baseball, which is something that most of our pitching prospects don't do...I guess you can be a pessimist and think that they'll flop, but I, for one, think that we have a serious perennial contending rotation on our hands and it makes no sense to give that up for a guy that will be 30 by the time we MIGHT compete (considering we sign pitchers to fill the void of those we traded).

You're setting this franchise back if you do that...we've rebuilt to this point, and you want to take a step back? Are you some Yankees or Sox fan in disguise? Honestly...The mindset that we're a first basemen away from competing (which is what you're inferring...that AGonz will fix everything) is complete nonsense. We'd still suck this year even if we had Tex...our pitching is THE WORST in all of baseball...hitting doesn't correct that.

Where are you getting that anyone thinks the O's are a 1st away? It would just be a sure fix to one of the huge holes. The O's will need much better pitching (rotation & bullpen) & a much better alternative at 1st & a much better alternative at 3rd. That's a lot of &'s. W/ that said Gonzo would be a long term solution, so when Tillman, Matzus, Bergy & whoever else is filling out the rotation we won't also still need a clean-up hitter.

[jdwilde1]

Let's say you need a car with good gas mileage because you have a 2 hour commute to work everyday. Would you trade in your brand new Civic for a used Hummer with 100,000 miles on it?

The answer is no, while the Hummer is the new flashy thing to drive around town, the Civic fits your long term commuting needs and it will last longer, as it is brand new.

If you haven't picked up on the analogy, think of Tillman, Matusz, or Arrieta (what AGonz will cost) as the Civic and AGonz as the Hummer...

Can we win a World Series in the next 2 years before AGonz's contract is up with the current worst pitching staff in baseball? Probably not...so why trade the long term solution for a short term problem?

That is probably the worst analogy I've ever heard. Also, I don't think anyone would consider making a deal absent having a long-term extension already agreed upon. It was a simple question - would you trade some of your exceptional pitching depth for a long term 1st base solution.

[jcumansky28]

That is probably the worst analogy I've ever heard. Also, I don't think anyone would consider making a deal absent having a long-term extension already agreed upon. It was a simple question - would you trade some of your exceptional pitching depth for a long term 1st base solution.

Hernandez, Arrieta, Drake, Snyder, Scott

[Crazysilver03]

Hernandez, Arrieta, Drake, Snyder, Scott

That is a deal I could live with.

[Arthur_Bryant]

It was a simple question - would you trade some of your exceptional pitching depth for a long term 1st base solution.

"Long term 1st base solution" is vague. Let's clarify what we're talking about. What, in your opinion, is the annual difference in runs between what Gonzalez would bring and what the O's would realistically get without giving up any of the prime pitching prospects?

(BTW to be a long term solution, he would need to agree to an extension. Your question assumes that he would, but that's not a given IMO).

[rooster1]

Let's say you need a car with good gas mileage because you have a 2 hour commute to work everyday. Would you trade in your brand new Civic for a used Hummer with 100,000 miles on it?

The answer is no, while the Hummer is the new flashy thing to drive around town, the Civic fits your long term commuting needs and it will last longer, as it is brand new.

If you haven't picked up on the analogy, think of Tillman, Matusz, or Arrieta (what AGonz will cost) as the Civic and AGonz as the Hummer...

Can we win a World Series in the next 2 years before AGonz's contract is up with the current worst pitching staff in baseball? Probably not...so why trade the long term solution for a short term problem?

PS. My post wasn't directed at you...It was directed at the mindset. I just get fed up with people who ignore the fact that we field the worst pitching rotation in all of baseball...they think with the minds of contenders who trade their prospects for established players...we are not a contender, not a 1b away from contending, and are in no position to even think in such a way...If an AGonz trade was the clear, obvious thing to do, like a lot of you seem to think, a smart baseball guy like AM would have done it already...but obviously, he hasn't, and maybe some of you should assess the reasons why that is. Personally, I'd rather trade someone not named Tillman, Arrieta, or Matusz for SD's other 1st basemen, Kyle Blanks. We can get him for a lot cheaper, a lot longer, and he still has the best years of his career ahead of him.

I will take an Hummer over a civic anyday haha