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Andy MacPhail - Disappointing GM


JTrea81

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And many people think I'm angry at MacPhail for not signing Tex, and while I'm dissapointed, I'm not angry.

I am however angry at the approach he took in his pursuit of Teixeira.

And it's amazing to me, that when you had a player like Tex that had hometown ties, that had Baltimore as a potential destination even though it wasn't #1, and that you gave the lowest offer of any team that tried to land him, that people think MacPhail will suddenly change his pursuit tactics for a FA like Gonzalez, Fielder, Howard or Pujols who, don't have hometown ties, and don't have the Orioles on their list at all most likely.

Why will MacPhail suddenly be aggressive and go after guys that don't want to play here when he was so passive with one that might have had the offer been right. And why will he overpay for those FAs over the Yankees and Red Sox when he wasn't willing to for Teixeira?

And why will he do this when he's never done it in his career?

He has a history of making great trades and stockpiling pitching. He has no history of keeping a good stockpile of position players or pursuing and signing that premium bat or arm to put a team over the top.

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I agree with you and would like to add just one thing. Was this guy in the meetings during Free Agency. How do you know what was said or offered in those meetings. The info out of the warehouse is slow and every joe blow thinks he knows everything that is going on in those meetings and 99% of the time there not even close. I think it's a pretty unfair post.

Cause everyone has inside connections. Brother's, friend's cousin's daughter in law filled up gas for Teixeira's dad's cousin's son.

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1) The Orioles fanbase had been deprived of a quality GM for so long, that the slightest appearance of competence gets met with resounding applause and an overestimation of quality. AM is a very smart baseball guy, and so far, I trust his decision-making abilities when it comes to rebuilding a franchise infrastructure. However, he does not seem as willing to go after FA talent on the level that Cashman or Epstein (who control our two strongest rivals) does. Once again, I believe that the problem that some have with AM is his laid-back approach in pursuing elite-level FAs.

2) We are giving AM way too much credit for doing what a GM is supposed to do. For example, let's say on a scale of 1 to 10 we measured the overall competence of a baseball FO.

Before AM, our FO ranked around 4, and after AM, its around 7. Meanwhile, the Yanks and Red Sox are at 10 consistently and show no signs of slowing down. Granted, AM had a lot to fix, but that is not an excuse to not explore all possible options to get our team to a 9/10 level. We can't be satisfied with being just above mediocre in the AL East. Our infrastructure should have NEVER fallen to pieces in the way it did and now that AM has gotten us to the level that a typically-run baseball franchise normally operates, the fanbase should not be dancing in the streets.

I am appreciate of his efforts as are most of us here, but I will not launch fireworks for the man until we at least finish over .500.

MSK

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And many people think I'm angry at MacPhail for not signing Tex, and while I'm dissapointed, I'm not angry.

I am however angry at the approach he took in his pursuit of Teixeira.

And it's amazing to me, that when you had a player like Tex that had hometown ties, that had Baltimore as a potential destination even though it wasn't #1, and that you gave the lowest offer of any team that tried to land him, that people think MacPhail will suddenly change his pursuit tactics for a FA like Gonzalez, Fielder, Howard or Pujols who, don't have hometown ties, and don't have the Orioles on their list at all most likely.

Why will MacPhail suddenly be aggressive and go after guys that don't want to play here when he was so passive with one that might have had the offer been right. And why will he overpay for those FAs over the Yankees and Red Sox when he wasn't willing to for Teixeira?

And why will he do this when he's never done it in his career?

He has a history of making great trades and stockpiling pitching. He has no history of keeping a good stockpile of position players or pursuing and signing that premium bat or arm to put a team over the top.

These are the questions that the kool aid drinkers never will give a real answer to.

MSK

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And many people think I'm angry at MacPhail for not signing Tex, and while I'm dissapointed, I'm not angry.

I am however angry at the approach he took in his pursuit of Teixeira.

And it's amazing to me, that when you had a player like Tex that had hometown ties, that had Baltimore as a potential destination even though it wasn't #1, and that you gave the lowest offer of any team that tried to land him, that people think MacPhail will suddenly change his pursuit tactics for a FA like Gonzalez, Fielder, Howard or Pujols who, don't have hometown ties, and don't have the Orioles on their list at all most likely.

Why will MacPhail suddenly be aggressive and go after guys that don't want to play here when he was so passive with one that might have had the offer been right. And why will he overpay for those FAs over the Yankees and Red Sox when he wasn't willing to for Teixeira?

And why will he do this when he's never done it in his career?

He has a history of making great trades and stockpiling pitching. He has no history of keeping a good stockpile of position players or pursuing and signing that premium bat or arm to put a team over the top.

I'm disappointed too he didn't come here. But on the other hand, we're just dealing with stuff that was "leaked". Who knows what the official offer was. But also, didn't MacPhail or someone said that they submitted the offer and never really heard anything back from the Tex camp? I think they just gave them a no and never countered. If he was THAT interested in coming here do you think he would have at least submitted a counter?

So he has no history of having young position players. We certainly have some in the folds now. And by some of the drafts and trades recently, he has shown that.

And while not signing a premium bat in Chicago (not that I can recall at least), he did trade for Aramis Ramirez and Derek Lee. Either of those guys would fit nicely right now.

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And you think there is a guarantee reaching that mark by going crazy with expensive FAs?
There are no guarantees in Baseball. If you take that approach you are bound to fail. There are bets, and better bets. The better bet is pitching over hitting. It is cheaper to grow and more effective. Bats are easier to buy and not as essential. It make sense to try to get as much out of the money you have to spend, no matter how much you have.
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And you think there is a guarantee reaching that mark by going crazy with expensive FAs?

Not going crazy, but adding parts. We did it in 1996, 1997 and the Red Sox have been adding FAs and have been in the playoffs consistantly over the past decade.

That model works. We don't know if this one will work in the AL East. Just look at the Rays who won't make the playoffs despite their young talent.

The Red Sox traded for Pedro Martinez and signed Manny Ramirez and that started their revival. They took some percieved big risks to put their franchise back on the map, and it paid off.

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1) The Orioles fanbase had been deprived of a quality GM for so long, that the slightest appearance of competence gets met with resounding applause and an overestimation of quality. AM is a very smart baseball guy, and so far, I trust his decision-making abilities when it comes to rebuilding a franchise infrastructure. However, he does not seem as willing to go after FA talent on the level that Cashman or Epstein (who control our two strongest rivals) does. Once again, I believe that the problem that some have with AM is his laid-back approach in pursuing elite-level FAs.

2) We are giving AM way too much credit for doing what a GM is supposed to do. For example, let's say on a scale of 1 to 10 we measured the overall competence of a baseball FO.

Before AM, our FO ranked around 4, and after AM, its around 7. Meanwhile, the Yanks and Red Sox are at 10 consistently and show no signs of slowing down. Granted, AM had a lot to fix, but that is not an excuse to not explore all possible options to get our team to a 9/10 level. We can't be satisfied with being just above mediocre in the AL East. Our infrastructure should have NEVER fallen to pieces in the way it did and now that AM has gotten us to the level that a typically-run baseball franchise normally operates, the fanbase should not be dancing in the streets.

I am appreciate of his efforts as are most of us here, but I will not launch fireworks for the man until we at least finish over .500.

MSK

Really? You think the MFY have a smart effective GM. I think you are completely wrong, they just have the ability to spend three times as much as anyone else and it hides thier mistakes.

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1) The Orioles fanbase had been deprived of a quality GM for so long, that the slightest appearance of competence gets met with resounding applause and an overestimation of quality. AM is a very smart baseball guy, and so far, I trust his decision-making abilities when it comes to rebuilding a franchise infrastructure. However, he does not seem as willing to go after FA talent on the level that Cashman or Epstein (who control our two strongest rivals) does. Once again, I believe that the problem that some have with AM is his laid-back approach in pursuing elite-level FAs.

2) We are giving AM way too much credit for doing what a GM is supposed to do. For example, let's say on a scale of 1 to 10 we measured the overall competence of a baseball FO.

Before AM, our FO ranked around 4, and after AM, its around 7. Meanwhile, the Yanks and Red Sox are at 10 consistently and show no signs of slowing down. Granted, AM had a lot to fix, but that is not an excuse to not explore all possible options to get our team to a 9/10 level. We can't be satisfied with being just above mediocre in the AL East. Our infrastructure should have NEVER fallen to pieces in the way it did and now that AM has gotten us to the level that a typically-run baseball franchise normally operates, the fanbase should not be dancing in the streets.

I am appreciate of his efforts as are most of us here, but I will not launch fireworks for the man until we at least finish over .500.

MSK

How do you measure a GM? By the team's record? How the moves make out?

The reason Yanks and Red Sox always compete is because they have the resources/money to fix their mistakes. Spend too much on Carl Pavano? No big deal, we'll just make another move. Did I fail to get a quality backup OF or utility guy? Ohh no problem, we'll just trade for a guy making 5 million and give him that job.

I guess the point is, plenty of the moves that Yanks and Red Sox make don't pan out, they just have the resources to cover it up.

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How do you measure a GM? By the team's record? How the moves make out?

The reason Yanks and Red Sox always compete is because they have the resources/money to fix their mistakes. Spend too much on Carl Pavano? No big deal, we'll just make another move. Did I fail to get a quality backup OF or utility guy? Ohh no problem, we'll just trade for a guy making 5 million and give him that job.

I guess the point is, plenty of the moves that Yanks and Red Sox make don't pan out, they just have the resources to cover it up.

The Red Sox and Yankees always go the extra mile in the pursuit of their FA targets. They don't just let their teams sell themselves even though they obviously have the advantage with their profile and status.

And while they have resources, they give back to the fans by putting a quality product on the field for the fans to watch, instead of trying to sell them on the future of said team while expecting them to pay for watching a losing team night after night. Obviously the Orioles could make a lot more money into what they are making now if they would put something on the field that fans would pay to see night after night. And then they could use that money to keep upgrading the team and might even be able to raise ticket prices to keep increasing revenue. You've got to spend money to make money.

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The other thing people forget is that part of the time MacPhail was GM he was doing that for the perennial small market Minnesota Twins. Spending money was never an option there and never will be.

In Chicago, while not landing a high priced free agent, I know he made some trades and then signed to extensions. People like Derek Lee, Aramis Ramirez, Henry Rodriguez (I think), and on and on.

In the end would I care if he traded for Adrian Gonzalez and signed him to an extension, or waited for him to hit free agency?

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The Red Sox and Yankees always go the extra mile in the pursuit of their FA targets. They don't just let their teams sell themselves.

How? What is your proof that the Red Sox and Yankees go above and beyond to lure someone in? What do they do more of than the Orioles?

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The Red Sox and Yankees always go the extra mile in the pursuit of their FA targets. They don't just let their teams sell themselves even though they obviously have the advantage with their profile and status.

Can you cite an example? other than adding a zero on the end of the number.:rolleyes:

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Fortunately AM doesn't care

And it's a good thing we didn't sign Moyer, Looper, and even Lowe. We could be paying a 39 year old Derek Lowe $15MM in 2012.

Doubtful, I certainly never made the argument to sign Lowe, and you picked one case out of many. Lowe is but one guy who we didn't sign, rightfully so, but there were many other examples of guys we could have signed, but didn't, if we only had stepped up our efforts.

MSK

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