Andy MacPhail - Disappointing GM

[JTrea81]

This guy says hello...

<img src="http://www.cantstopthebleeding.com/img/soriano_leg.jpg">

That guy wasn't signed until the 2006 offseason, after MacPhail left the Cubs.

And the Cubs made the playoffs in 2007 and 2008 when they finally decided to open the coffers that were closed shut under MacPhail.

[hatepaste]

Jordan made the draft choices and

Ok so then you can't complain that MacPhail didn't draft position players in Minnesota or Chicago.

[Hank Scorpio]

No all that really matters is that not that he didn't sign the player, rather his poor attempt and lack of aggressiveness in trying to sign said player, and how that fits the profile and track record of his tenure in other organizations.

So if he would have "tried harder" you'd be okay with it?

Right.

[Why Not?]

Perhaps the best evidence that our front office is doing an excellent job is that in order to start a critical thread, one has to rely on non-sensical, fabricated and/or speculative examples.

MacPhail doesn't wine and dine players enough? C'mon. :rolleyestf:

[Crazysilver03]

And many people think I'm angry at MacPhail for not signing Tex, and while I'm dissapointed, I'm not angry.

I am however angry at the approach he took in his pursuit of Teixeira.

And it's amazing to me, that when you had a player like Tex that had hometown ties, that had Baltimore as a potential destination even though it wasn't #1, and that you gave the lowest offer of any team that tried to land him, that people think MacPhail will suddenly change his pursuit tactics for a FA like Gonzalez, Fielder, Howard or Pujols who, don't have hometown ties, and don't have the Orioles on their list at all most likely.

Why will MacPhail suddenly be aggressive and go after guys that don't want to play here when he was so passive with one that might have had the offer been right. And why will he overpay for those FAs over the Yankees and Red Sox when he wasn't willing to for Teixeira?

And why will he do this

MacPhail stated that he was deviating from the plan when he was going after Tex. We still need to grow the arms. When Gonzalez, Fielder, Howard, and Pujols are free agents after 2011, the Orioles should be in a good position to go hard after a big bat, if they havent acquired one already, because that will be part of the plan at that time.

[hatepaste]

To put it simply folks, the fact is...

If the complaining about your GM involves the moves he DIDN'T make that you perceive maybe he could have instead of the moves he DID make, then you are doing pretty well...

[MemorialStadKid]

Some of these comments just make me shake my head and wonder. I completely disagree with the opening post and additions and now I know the Team is being run right because of this ridiculous line of thought.

Newsflash: The Yankees and Red Sox have a lot more CASH than the Orioles. That means you have to build an Organization in a different manner. Pretty simple actually.

And I swore I wouldn't post in this thread.:laughlol:

First off, we don't know what the Orioles operating budget can be in relation to revenue. That information is not known therefore we can't say that the Orioles can't spend money to be competitive.

We don't need to OUTSPEND the Yanks and Red Sox each season, we need to spend money WISELY when elite-level FAs become available every few years. The question is WILL WE spend when the "time comes" to get us to the place we need to be? I am not so sure and that is one of the main points of this thread.

MSK

[olehippi]

And many people think I'm angry at MacPhail for not signing Tex, and while I'm dissapointed, I'm not angry.

I am however angry at the approach he took in his pursuit of Teixeira.

And it's amazing to me, that when you had a player like Tex that had hometown ties, that had Baltimore as a potential destination even though it wasn't #1, and that you gave the lowest offer of any team that tried to land him, that people think MacPhail will suddenly change his pursuit tactics for a FA like Gonzalez, Fielder, Howard or Pujols who, don't have hometown ties, and don't have the Orioles on their list at all most likely.

Why will MacPhail suddenly be aggressive and go after guys that don't want to play here when he was so passive with one that might have had the offer been right. And why will he overpay for those FAs over the Yankees and Red Sox when he wasn't willing to for Teixeira?

And why will he do this when he's never done it in his career?

He has a history of making great trades and stockpiling pitching. He has no history of keeping a good stockpile of position players or pursuing and signing that premium bat or arm to put a team over the top.

JTreas......I have a question?

You say you are angry about how MacPhail pursed Teixeria. How do you know what he did or didn't do? Were you part of the pursuit, or did you just read and hear the same "stuff" the rest of us did? And to my knowledge, MacPhail never sat down and gave us a detailed blow-by-blow account of the negotiations. So the truth is, you have no clue of the accuracy of any of that "stuff" you've based your anger, and your assumptions, upon.

As for Tex and his "hometown ties?" By his own admission he grew up a Yankees fan, not an Orioles fan, and his favorite player was Don Mattingly, not Cal Ripken. The simple truth (by his own admission) is that he is playing exactly where he has always wanted to play. And although he signed for an outrageous amount of money, that was because of his "borass" agent. Be mad at Tex, not MacPhail and Angelos.

End of story!

[TiredofLosing20]

Agreed; He was given a blank check and told to win a WS. I could do that with unlimited resources.

Seriously, he turned away from home grown talent, made some really bad signings and hasn't won a WS in 9 years, been to one in 7 and missed the playoffs last year all the while spending no less than 32% more in salary than the second highest paid payroll since their last WS appearance.

Pretty pathetic if you ask me.

[Crazysilver03]

1) The Orioles fanbase had been deprived of a quality GM for so long, that the slightest appearance of competence gets met with resounding applause and an overestimation of quality. AM is a very smart baseball guy, and so far, I trust his decision-making abilities when it comes to rebuilding a franchise infrastructure. However, he does not seem as willing to go after FA talent on the level that Cashman or Epstein (who control our two strongest rivals) does. Once again, I believe that the problem that some have with AM is his laid-back approach in pursuing elite-level FAs.

2) We are giving AM way too much credit for doing what a GM is supposed to do. For example, let's say on a scale of 1 to 10 we measured the overall competence of a baseball FO.

Before AM, our FO ranked around 4, and after AM, its around 7. Meanwhile, the Yanks and Red Sox are at 10 consistently and show no signs of slowing down. Granted, AM had a lot to fix, but that is not an excuse to not explore all possible options to get our team to a 9/10 level. We can't be satisfied with being just above mediocre in the AL East. Our infrastructure should have NEVER fallen to pieces in the way it did and now that AM has gotten us to the level that a typically-run baseball franchise normally operates, the fanbase should not be dancing in the streets.

I am appreciate of his efforts as are most of us here, but I will not launch fireworks for the man until we at least finish over .500.

MSK

I agree that some people give too much credit to MacPhail, but you are giving too much credit to Cashman, and especially Theo. I would really like to see Theo or Cashman work with a smaller budget and see what they could put together. Mind you, what has really worked out for Theo recently? The Brad Penny and John Smoltz experiments failed, costing the Red Sox a little over $10M. They are already looking to unload Dice-K and they just ate the contract of Lugo at the cost of $9M. Cashman brings in Sydney Ponson and Russ Ortiz to serve as 5th starters?

[JTrea81]

So if he would have "tried harder" you'd be okay with it?

Right.

If we offered $184 million off the bat on the first day we could and Tex turned it down, I'd feel alot better, yes.

But the fact that we offered the lowest amount of any team, including the Nationals after they and the Angels both had higher offers, is unacceptable.

But that also fits the way Andy has dealt with FA his whole time as a FO executive. And I fully expect those who are expecting us to sign a Fielder or Howard in FA to put us over the top, will be extremely disappointed.

[MemorialStadKid]

I agree that some people give too much credit to MacPhail, but you are giving too much credit to Cashman, and especially Theo. I would really like to see Theo or Cashman work with a smaller budget and see what they could put together. Mind you, what has really worked out for Theo recently? The Brad Penny and John Smoltz experiments failed, costing the Red Sox a little over $10M. They are already looking to unload Dice-K and they just ate the contract of Lugo at the cost of $9M. Cashman brings in Sydney Ponson and Russ Ortiz to serve as 5th starters?

These are great questions and my answer is that the Red Sox and Yanks have something that we don't: IMPACT BATS.

MSK

[hatepaste]

If we offered $184 million off the bat on the first day we could and Tex turned it down, I'd feel alot better, yes.

But the fact that we offered the lowest amount of any team, including the Nationals, is unacceptable.

But that also fits the way Andy has dealt with FA his whole time as a FO executive. And I fully expect those who are expecting us to sign a Fielder or Howard in FA to put us over the top, will be extremely disappointed.

The 140 mil was a starting point in negotiations. They never responded back. That's no more ridiculous then the fact that Boras was talking about 10 year contracts in the range of 250-300 million

[Satyr3206]

First off, we don't know what the Orioles operating budget can be in relation to revenue. That information is not known therefore we can't say that the Orioles can't spend money to be competitive.

We don't need to OUTSPEND the Yanks and Red Sox each season, we need to spend money WISELY when elite-level FAs become available every few years. The question is WILL WE spend when the "time comes" to get us to the place we need to be? I am not so sure and that is one of the main points of this thread.

MSK

I assume you have been an Orioles fan for a while. The Orioles have consistently spent on FA's. Some good, some bad, but they have always spent. And MacPhail has said he would to, when the time is right. Now isn't that time.

[Mackus]

I guess Beckett and Sabathia aren't worth their contracts.

Beckett wasn't a FA and Sabathia is in his first year of an 8-year deal so that jury is still well out.

Go back and look at all the FA pitching signed to big deals. They are very rarely successful. Note I didn't say never, which makes your comment above (assuming you replace it with relevant names that were successful FA pitchers like, say, Mike Mussina) unnecessary. Its a fact that FA hitters are FAR more likely to be worth their contracts than pitchers. You can argue with that if you want, but you'll just be proven to be wrong.

Guys don't have to be great pitchers in every year of their deal to be worth the contract, they just have to be worth it overall. Very few starting pitchers signed to big deals end up working out well for their teams. The ones that do join teams that are very close to the playoffs or already playoff teams and help them in their first two or three years. In years 4-6 of FA pitching deals, the contracts almost always are worth far more than the pitcher is producing.