Trembley's take on baserunning on the Orioles and in MLB

[slappy12]

Oh then I guess it's Trembley's fault, then. Where's the fire Trembley thread?

Don't give JTrea any ideas!!!!

[snatch311]

Samuel's a joke. Why would you say that guys are only good enough to be major leaguers because of expansion?

If he would've phrased it as maybe the guys aren't ready for prime-time or in any sort of logical way, I would appreciate it. Then it's saying that they are working with them to make sure they're prepared and in the position to succeed.

Instead, it looks like, "Oh, I do a great job, but these guys are bums and don't belong in the majors."

[Hank Scorpio]

I agree with Trembley's comments that many of the baserunning decisions have to be made and are made by the players. However, when there is a teamwide all season chronic display on hand, the manager has to take some heat for it.

I agree with this.

There was obviously an objective set forth early on to be aggressive on the basepaths this year. Guess that decision was made prior to evaluating the baserunning talent on the roster.

[ccbird]

Roberts knows his cliches better than Crash Davis himself and with the rare exception of Sam Perlozzo in the week before his firing he has always steadfastly defended his coaches no matter what. He was just putting the politically correct spin on the situation, not giving any great insight to the public about what the guys in the clubhouse really think. I'm glad to hear he and Anita talked about something other that reality TV during his segment though.

He said it because it's the truth. Like I said if you took most everyone of those players out to a bar and asked them about the baserunning they would tell you it's their fault. I mean there is a lot of fundamental things you can teach ball players and a lot of drills to improve certain aspects of your game but baserunning is something where you just got to have a feel. There isn't a drill that I know of that can improve instincts and makes players more aware on the basepaths.

[PitchingWins]

He said it because it's the truth. Like I said if you took most everyone of those players out to a bar and asked them about the baserunning they would tell you it's their fault. I mean there is a lot of fundamental things you can teach ball players and a lot of drills to improve certain aspects of your game but baserunning is something where you just got to have a feel. There isn't a drill that I know of that can improve instincts and makes players more aware on the basepaths.

Then why do they do baserunning drills? And why was almighty Juan talking about the clinics they ran in ST and moving players from base to base to teach them what to do? :scratchchinhmm:

[Hank Scorpio]

Let's see...

Blueberry hates Samuel b/c he didn't tackle Brian Roberts when he forgot how many outs there were. She's an admitted Roberts apologist. (Who can blame her, he's a great baseball player... but he made a stupid mistake that he accepted full blame for afterwards, but we tend to overlook that fact b/c it goes counter to the Samuel anger.)

Gordo & Puck are staunch Pie supporters and he made a boneheaded play on the bases last night, but wasn't guided to make the right decision by Samuel's telepathic shortcomings...

So yeah, fire Samuel. He obviously didn't teach these guys how to properly count or judge how long it takes a baseball to travel 120 feet when thrown. Bring back the windmill Tom Trebelhorn, god knows we all loved his base coaching "abilities."

Please.

[Mooreisbetter27]

Let's see...

Blueberry hates Samuel b/c he didn't tackle Brian Roberts when he forgot how many outs there were. She's an admitted Roberts apologist. (Who can blame her, he's a great baseball player... but he made a stupid mistake that he accepted full blame for afterwards, but we tend to overlook that fact b/c it goes counter to the Samuel anger.)

Gordo & Puck are staunch Pie supporters and he made a boneheaded play on the bases last night, but wasn't guided to make the right decision by Samuel's telepathic shortcomings...

So yeah, fire Samuel. He obviously didn't teach these guys how to properly count or judge how long it takes a baseball to travel 120 feet when thrown. Bring back <b>the windmill Tom Trebelhorn</b>, god knows we all loved his base coaching "abilities."

Please.

Whoa there partner. Samuel is quite the windmill himself which is one of the reasons he was getting so much flak earlier in the year.

You can't tell me you weren't in those countless Game Threads that I was that would just erupt everytime he would windmill and get someone thrown out at the plate.

[ccbird]

If you looked at the replays of that particular play you would see that Pie did look at his 3B coach and got nada. BTW, just a question. On a steal(which is what Pie was doing) is it sound fundamentals to look back at the hitter as you're running to 2B? I notice that few basestealers do.

Hit and run absolutely. Straight steal no, and if a player doesn't pick up the ball off the bat he has to pick up the basecoach. But that's the point, the basecoach is there to assist, not make decisions. The only exception is with a player rounding 3rd.

[Hank Scorpio]

Whoa there partner. Samuel is quite the windmill himself which is one of the reasons he was getting so much flak earlier in the year.

You can't tell me you weren't in those countless Game Threads that I was that would just erupt everytime he would windmill and get someone thrown out at the plate.

Yes, and in the other ridiculous "Fire Samuel" thread, I said this :

His "subordinates?"

Seriously? The lowest paid schmuck on this team probably makes twice what Juan Samuel makes. His job is to barehand foul balls at third base and not get killed by line drives, and to occasionally wave somebody in.

Oh, and to absorb blame for incompetent baserunners. Forgot that part.

I have cussed at him for getting runners thrown out at home by 10 feet. Those instances fall on him. Very little else does, sorry to say. The third base coach is the scapegoat. Wow, we have sunk as low as is sinkable.

[Mooreisbetter27]

Yes, and in the other ridiculous "Fire Samuel" thread, I said this :

I just thought it interesting that you insulted Trebelhorn to make a point and the insult you used is the exact same thing that can be said about Samuel, the guy we want to fire. Seemed a bit contrary to me.

[blueberryale77]

The thing is, I don't recall these guys being this bad under Perlozzo or Mazzilli or in other organizations.

Maybe I'm just not remembering correctly...

Looking at just SB % although of course it doesn't tell the whole story:

2009: 65.6% (Trembley)

2008: 68.6% (Trembley)

2007: 77.5% (Trembley & Perlozzo)

2006: 79.1% (Perlozzo)

2005: 69.2% (Mazzilli/Perlozzo)

2004: 71.1% (Mazzilli)

Correlation is not causation, but there definitely has appeared to be a negative trend since Trembley took over and started pushing aggressiveness on the bases. Though I don't know where to find a stat about runners running into outs on the bases when they're not stealing, it certainly seems to me that that has happened more frequently under Trembley as well.

[LookitsPuck]

Hit and run absolutely. Straight steal no, and if a player doesn't pick up the ball off the bat he has to pick up the basecoach. But that's the point, the basecoach is there to assist, not make decisions. The only exception is with a player rounding 3rd.

Okay, so...Pie was straight stealing. After getting to 2nd he couldn't pick up the ball, and then looked to the 3rd base coach for assistance...and he didn't get anything from him. What did Pie do wrong here?

[LookitsPuck]

Looking at just SB % although of course it doesn't tell the whole story:

2009: 65.6% (Trembley)

2008: 68.6% (Trembley)

2007: 77.5% (Trembley & Perlozzo)

2006: 79.1% (Perlozzo)

2005: 69.2% (Mazzilli/Perlozzo)

2004: 71.1% (Mazzilli)

Correlation is not causation, but there definitely has appeared to be a negative trend since Trembley took over and started pushing aggressiveness on the bases. Though I don't know where to find a stat about runners running into outs on the bases when they're not stealing, it certainly seems to me that that has happened more frequently under Trembley as well.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/2009-batting.shtml

See: OOB

[Alphonse]

I would have been irritated if Samuel had said it and he was a fantastic 3rd base coach. Fact is, he's quite possibly the worst in the league so he really has no room to talk. Much less talk poorly about the players he's a coach for.

Is he really the worst 3B coach in the league, or is this hyperbole and conjecture? I'm honestly not sure. Look, I don't agree with the way he's handled his business in the press. But what kinda value does a 3B coach have on a team? JTrea linked to the wikipedia article. I actually like the first sentence in the article: Coaches assist in the smooth functioning of a team. That rings true to me. If that's the case, the team operates as a seperate entity while on the field, for the most part, and the coaches guide the action along as efficiently as possible. Juan Samuel's quote is a bit out of that realm, and it leads me to believe Dave doesn't have a handle on his staff, which kinda saddens me, since I like Trembley. So maybe that's the value a coach may have on a team...

This has gotten to be quite a whirlwind. Fact is, Trembley is managing a bizarre roster, at least in terms of vets dying a slow playing death, kids brought up quicker than was anticipated... Let the kids play means let 'em play and make mistakes. I don't understand the impatience people are feeling concerning this team.

Most O's fans realize that we're in a rebuilding mode. We made giant leaps in the last couple of years by getting a GM who was able to formulate and follow through on a plan, and seems to have control over baseball operations. We are drafting much better than we were during prior regimes. We are exploiting teams and building through trades. We are shedding dead weight that will, most likely, not help us compete.

I don't understand why some fans do not have the patience to let us continue in this phase. I was cautiously optimistic Wieters would rake once he got here, but that hasn't happened. Am I concerned about this? No, and why should I be? We've had surprises this year that not many counted on, like Brad Bergesen. Who's to say there aren't more coming in? What if Matusz or Tillman doesn't get comfortable, make adjustments, etc.? What if they bust? Does that mean our aim wasn't true?

Point is, these kids that we're pinning our hopes on... we won't know for a couple of years what they are. Clayton Kershaw came up last year, and he was regarded much like Tillman is now. There are differences between 'em, sure, but both are exceptionally young pitchers thought to be among the best in minor league ball, and Kershaw has had his fair share of adjusting to the league.

Doesn't it make more sense that 2010 is a learning season, full of highs and lows? Give this team a year with its nucleus in place, and then you might start seeing some beautiful baseball.

Wow, kinda off-topic, after a bit.

Sorry.

[El Gordo]

Let's see...

Blueberry hates Samuel b/c he didn't tackle Brian Roberts when he forgot how many outs there were. She's an admitted Roberts apologist. (Who can blame her, he's a great baseball player... but he made a stupid mistake that he accepted full blame for afterwards, but we tend to overlook that fact b/c it goes counter to the Samuel anger.)

Gordo & Puck are staunch Pie supporters and he made a boneheaded play on the bases last night, but wasn't guided to make the right decision by Samuel's telepathic shortcomings...

So yeah, fire Samuel. He obviously didn't teach these guys how to properly count or judge how long it takes a baseball to travel 120 feet when thrown. Bring back the windmill Tom Trebelhorn, god knows we all loved his base coaching "abilities."

Please.

And because you have no idea as to what a real 3B coach's responibilities are, you think he doesn't have any. You should tell that to Larry Bowa. I would enjoy watching him give you his answer.:laughlol: