Fire Juan Samuel?

[ChrisAF79]

I simply cannot get past what Samuel said. It's unprofessional and uncalled for, especially given his own space cadet-like performance at 3rd.

Can him, and keep him as far away as possible from this team. He's becoming a distraction worse than Mora at this point.

[Hank Scorpio]

The fact that players screw up doesn't negate the fact that Samuel screws up too. Cherry-picking examples doesn't help anything. Last night, there were two issues involving Pie on the bases. You cite one. On the other one, Samuel failed to give direction to Pie when Pie was looking right at him. The issue about Samuel is not Pie or Roberts, the issue about Samuel is Samuel. His own brain is AWOL enough for me to see it, and that's saying something since 3B-coaches tend to be pretty invisible. However much we might say that there's no excuse for players doing boneheaded things, there's even less excuse for the 3B coach to have his brain in neutral. He's not busy running the bases, he's just standing there with nothing to do but pay good attention to what the situation calls for, and Samuel fails to do that.

Yeah I recall the other, where Pie waited until after he stopped at 2nd base to look at Samuel. He stopped because he was busy looking at the shortstop instead of his third base coach.

That play, right?

Do you honestly believe Samuel was telling him to go back to first?

[TJ Wrangler]

What exactly happened with Bynum? I heard something of an altercation happened in passing but I haven't heard exactly what.

This is going off memory, but I recall there being a shouting match between the two and Samuel grabbed Bynum and shoved him up against the locker.

http://www.fanhouse.com/tag/Freddie%20Bynum/

Orioles third base coach Juan Samuel downplayed a report in yesterday's San Diego Union-Tribune that said he and utility man Freddie Bynum had a verbal and then physical confrontation before the Orioles' 7-1 victory over the Padres on Wednesday night.

"It was nothing," Samuel said. "It was no big deal, just something that was between player and coach."

The newspaper reported that the two had words during batting practice and it escalated into the clubhouse when Samuel "slammed into Bynum, launching the player into his dressing stall." The paper said that Orioles outfielder Jay Payton restored order in the clubhouse.

Bynum, who acknowledged that he had words with first base coach Sam Mejias earlier this season in Toronto, denied that an incident took place, saying, "I've never had a problem with Juan."

[Mooreisbetter27]

This is going off memory, but I recall there being a shouting match between the two and Samuel grabbed Bynum and shoved him up against the locker.

http://www.fanhouse.com/tag/Freddie%20Bynum/

Interesting... thanks for that Justin.

[blueberryale77]

From Roch's blog:

Who gets credit for this?

Nolan Reimold does!!!!!! Why?

Because he didn't make a stupid out, of course.

Why can't you (and a few others) understand that nobody is taking blame away from the players by saying that Samuel should have reacted differently to their blunders? Various posters including myself have tried numerous analogies and cliches for this situation, yet we keep getting told that we're making excuses for the players sucking by saying that Samuel also sucks. Two wrongs don't make a right, but guys like Brian Roberts and even Felix Pie have enough redeeming value to keep around. Where is Samuel's value?

[terpedO]

Isn't what Juan Samuel said the exact same thing other posters on this board have been saying? He's stressing accountability from each and every player wearing a Baltimore Orioles uniform. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the exact trait we've wanted instilled into all of the players...for them to be accountable for their actions on the diamond?

The Orioles are making baserunning blunders that even little leaguers shouldn't make. Their pathetic performance on the basepath should in no way represent the Orioles coaching staff. Were not in pee wee baseball anymore, this is the major leagues. Players get paid millions to play in this league and it is their job to perform in the field, not the coaches. Like Hank said, Nolan gets credit for his exceptional job on the basepath, not Juan Samuel. It should be the same way, if a player makes a mistake.

I'm pleased that Juan Samuel made this statement, especially with the amount of young players we have on this team. Let these words resonate in their minds, because I'm sick of watching sloppy baseball. Thank you for saying something Juan.

[ChrisAF79]

Interesting... thanks for that Justin.

It's truly a sad situation when Jay Payton of all people had to "restore order in the clubhouse".

[Mooreisbetter27]

It's truly a sad situation when Jay Payton of all people had to "restore order in the clubhouse".

Sadly I thought the same thing. :laughlol:

He would've been one of the last ones I expected to break up a fight.

[Hank Scorpio]

Why can't you (and a few others) understand that nobody is taking blame away from the players by saying that Samuel should have reacted differently to their blunders? Various posters including myself have tried numerous analogies and cliches for this situation, yet we keep getting told that we're making excuses for the players sucking by saying that Samuel also sucks. Two wrongs don't make a right, but guys like Brian Roberts and even Felix Pie have enough redeeming value to keep around. Where is Samuel's value?

Maybe you missed my post where I said that I could care less whether or not they fire Samuel.

The third base coach is inconsequential when you have bad baserunners. Why can't YOU (and a few others) understand that?

[RShack]

Yeah I recall the other, where Pie waited until after he stopped at 2nd base to look at Samuel. He stopped because he was busy looking at the shortstop instead of his third base coach.

That play, right?

Do you honestly believe Samuel was telling him to go back to first?

I believe what Bert Blyleven saw and commented on, because it was the same thing I saw. This was discussed in the game thread when you were there, so if you really wanted to know it, you already would.

As Blyleven pointed out, Pie was on a straight steal, running with his head down to get to 2B before the throw did. Didn't know the ball was hit, got himself to 2B, and didn't know where the ball was. He didn't look all over creation in a confused fashion to figure out what's what; he briefly glanced towards home, then immediately looked directly at Samuel for guidance as to what to do. There is no doubt about this, as the Twins TV camera was on the 3B side, right behind Samuel, so the camera shot was looking right by Samuel into Pie's face, and you could see both of them. With Pie looking directly at him, Samuel provided no direction of any kind. Rather than signal for Pie to either stay put at 2B or come on to 3B, Samuel simply raised his arms, as if in a shrug. Then, and only then, did Pie take a couple steps back towards 1B. Now, if you wanna diss Pie, be my guest, but that doesn't change the fact that in mid-play the baserunner at 2B looked directly at his 3B-coach for direction and got no guidance or direction, got nothing but a shrug. Now, if you have some story about how that's what the 3B coach is supposed to do, I really wanna hear it.

BTW, as Gordo pointed out, on the other play that involved the foul-pop near the dugout, the replay showed Samuel down on one knee, with his back to the play, staring out towards LF. At a bare minimum, when there is game action going on and runners on base, the 3B coach should at least be *pretending* to pay attention to the game. Unless, of course, you think he's got something better to do...

[Hank Scorpio]

I'm tired of beating this dead horse.

Maybe the next guy they hire should get a gigantic flashing light, maybe it could be a traffic light to make it simple for them.

Sweet.

[ChrisAF79]

I believe what Bert Blyleven saw and commented on, because it was the same thing I saw. This was discussed in the game thread when you were there, so if you really wanted to know it, you already would.

As Blyleven pointed out, Pie was on a straight steal, running with his head down to get to 2B before the throw did. Didn't know the ball was hit, got himself to 2B, and didn't know where the ball was. He didn't look all over creation in a confused fashion to figure out what's what; he briefly glanced towards home, then immediately looked directly at Samuel for guidance as to what to do. There is no doubt about this, as the Twins TV camera was on the 3B side, right behind Samuel, so the camera shot was looking right by Samuel into Pie's face, and you could see both of them. With Pie looking directly at him, Samuel provided no direction of any kind. Rather than signal for Pie to either stay put at 2B or come on to 3B, Samuel simply raised his arms, as if in a shrug. Then, and only then, did Pie take a couple steps back towards 1B. Now, if you wanna diss Pie, be my guest, but that doesn't change the fact that in mid-play the baserunner at 2B looked directly at his 3B-coach for direction and got no guidance or direction, got nothing but a shrug. Now, if you have some story about how that's what the 3B coach is supposed to do, I really wanna hear it.

BTW, as Gordo pointed out, on the other play that involved the foul-pop near the dugout, the replay showed Samuel down on one knee, with his back to the play, staring out towards LF. At a bare minimum, when there is game action going on and runners on base, the 3B coach should at least be *pretending* to pay attention to the game. Unless, of course, you think he's got something better to do...

This x's 1,000,000,000. Samuel could've been dead asleep or in a coma during both of these plays, and he would've been just as alert and helpful as he was in reality.

Simply inexcusable.

[ChrisAF79]

I'm tired of beating this dead horse.

You guys *and gals* think the third base coach has control over baserunner's decision making abilities.

Sweet.

Hank, it's not as black and white as you are making it out to be.

The 3rd base coach is there for guidance and support. Surely he cannot 100% control everything a particular base runner is thinking or doing, but he should at the very least be involved in the plays that are happening directly in front of him and do SOMETHING.

I simply cannot understand how you can view the replay of Pie rounding 2nd, looking directly towards Samuel, and then being completely clueless as to what to do without sending some of the blame towards Samuel's way.

[snatch311]

Has there been a survey of how good his handshakes are during Home Run Trots?

[Hank Scorpio]

Hank, it's not as black and white as you are making it out to be.

The 3rd base coach is there for guidance and support. Surely he cannot 100% control everything a particular base runner is thinking or doing, but he should at the very least be involved in the plays that are happening directly in front of him and do SOMETHING.

I simply cannot understand how you can view the replay of Pie rounding 2nd, looking directly towards Samuel, and then being completely clueless as to what to do without sending some of the blame towards Samuel's way.

I don't recall Pie rounding 2nd. I recall him getting deked by the shortstop (who's name isn't Samuel), stopping, then looking in confusion at Samuel who at that point probably had his head in his hands in frustration.

He looked at the shortstop after he heard contact and he stopped. If he would have looked at his third base coach instead, the traffic light would have been green.