What An Embarrassment

[NewMarketSean]

We'll just have to disagree. I haven't seen nearly the Steeler invasion that it once was and I've never missed a Steelers game in Baltimore and only 5 total games since they have come to town.

I am not saying there are everywhere .I am just saying they still have a decent showing, considering that the Ravens have been good 2 of the last 3 years.

[ChangeRoadUnis]

We'll just have to disagree. I haven't seen nearly the Steeler invasion that it once was and I've never missed a Steelers game in Baltimore and only 5 total games since they have come to town.

Unfortunately, those that don't recall history are condemned to re-live it. Baltimore lost the Colts because they stunk for a while and people stopped supporting them. Only after they were gone did people realize how important they really were. They will support the Ravens because of the Colts experience no matter what. They are not afraid of losing the Orioles. But, they didn't think the Colts would ever leave either, did they?

[Wadesworld35]

Unfortunately, those that don't recall history are condemned to re-live it. Baltimore lost the Colts because they stunk for a while and people stopped supporting them. Only after they were gone did people realize how important they really were. They will support the Ravens because of the Colts experience no matter what. They are not afraid of losing the Orioles. But, they didn't think the Colts would ever leave either, did they?

I hadn't yet been born when it happened, but from what I've read and heard, that's a narrow view of the history of "the Move."

[howie14]

I hadn't yet been born in those days, but from what I've read and heard, that's a narrow view of the history of "the Move."

Yep. That's the Reader's Digest version of the move. Or better yet, the Cliff Notes version.

[rolliefingers]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bal-sp.orioles01sep01,0,7478265.story

"We're not at the new Yankee Stadium," Jones said. "We're at Camden Yards. I expect more of our fans to be here, but I understand completely why they're not. But it [stinks] that they're not."

It pains me to read things like this from one of our young guys. It is very little fault of Mr. Jones that a winning "product" (I really hate this term, BTW) has not yet been put out on the field for the last decade plus.

I read in a Yankee forum and someone said, more or less, that he will give them credit for the O's playing with all of their might against the Yanks. You don't think these guys want to be a winning "product"(again, they are people not objects so why this term?) on the field?

Did anyone catch the look of dejection on Nolan's face after being called out looking for the third time on a bogus strike call? Argh!

It's a Catch-22, but if more O's fans showed up at these games, I'd be more likely to attend them as well.

As it is, attending these games is a futile exercise in self-flagellation. I simply have better things to do with my time. Sorry.

[TonySoprano]

Here are some numbers I lifted from a BSun poster.

O's attendance decrease since 99: 30%

Yanks attendance decrease from 89-92: 34%

Boston attendance decrease from 91-94: 32%

The problem, besides the source of the data , is that in 1999 we were already in the second year of decline. Attendance in 1997, aka the last winning season was 3,711,132. The following shows the cumulative decline from that point.

1998	3,684,650	-0.71%1999	3,433,150	-7.49%2000	3,297,031	-11.16%2001	3,094,841	-16.61%2002	2,682,439	-27.72%2003	2,454,523	-33.86%2004	2,744,018	-26.06%2005	2,624,740	-29.27%2006	2,153,139	-41.98%2007	2,164,822	-41.67%2008	1,950,075	-47.45%

47.45% since 1997. FWIW, the decrease from 1999 is 43.2%, not 30%

[Mashed Potatoes]

The problem, besides the source of the data , is that in 1999 we were already in the second year of decline. Attendance in 1997, aka the last winning season was 3,711,132. The following shows the cumulative decline from that point.

1998	3,684,650	-0.71%1999	3,433,150	-7.49%2000	3,297,031	-11.16%2001	3,094,841	-16.61%2002	2,682,439	-27.72%2003	2,454,523	-33.86%2004	2,744,018	-26.06%2005	2,624,740	-29.27%2006	2,153,139	-41.98%2007	2,164,822	-41.67%2008	1,950,075	-47.45%

47.45% since 1997. FWIW, the decrease from 1999 is 43.2%, not 30%

Thanks for checking that, I acknowledged the source because he didn't state where his numbers came from so I was skeptical. Do you know if his numbers on the Yanks/Sawx are correct?

[BMann]

We'll just have to disagree. I haven't seen nearly the Steeler invasion that it once was and I've never missed a Steelers game in Baltimore and only 5 total games since they have come to town.

Another Ravens season ticket holder chiming in. The "invasion" of the black-and-gold is way overstated these days, and has been since the new stadium opened. I'd estimate that maybe 10-15% of the fans at Steelers games are wearing Pitt colors, about what you'd expect of a big fairly-local rival with a huge national fanbase. It is not even close to what happens at OPACY nowadays when the Yanks/Sux are in town. 1996 and 1997 were like that at Memorial Stadium when the Steelers came to town, but now it's not even an issue. I look forward to watching the Steeler "faithful" taking the Walk of Shame out of our stadium after another whuppin' by the Ravens - last year was the first time since 2002 that they beat us here.

WINNING keeps the vermin away. That's my opinion, anyway...

[freelancer]

How about the Orioles just focus on getting better and more competitive with the Yankees and Red Sox? Their fans are going to come here regardless, we just need to send them home with their tail behind their legs more often by beating their teams and overtime, they might think twice about coming to OPACY.

I'm not implying that for some reason we give up on the plan to get better...that would be foolish....my point is that, if fans of the "enemy" are coming to our Yard, then there must be a better way of maximizing profits for the good of the organization and at the same time, discouraging the attendance of opposing fans because of the amount of money they would have to pay. Orioles fans would still have a good opportunity to come via the walk-up ticket buyer.

[TonySoprano]

Thanks for checking that, I acknowledged the source because he didn't state where his numbers came from so I was skeptical. Do you know if his numbers on the Yanks/Sawx are correct?

In the case of the Sox, yes, but with a huge caveat. 1994 was a strike shortened season, so of course attendance will see a big drop

Sox cumulative change from 1990

1991	BOS	2,562,435	1.32%1992	BOS	2,468,574	-2.39%1993	BOS	2,422,021	-4.23%1994	BOS	1,775,818	-29.78%1995	BOS	2,164,410	-14.42%1996	BOS	2,315,231	-8.45%1997	BOS	2,226,136	-11.98%1998	BOS	2,314,704	-8.47%1999	BOS	2,446,162	-3.28%2000	BOS	2,585,895	2.25%2001	BOS	2,625,333	3.81%2002	BOS	2,650,862	4.82%2003	BOS	2,724,165	7.72%2004	BOS	2,837,294	12.19%2005	BOS	2,847,888	12.61%2006	BOS	2,930,588	15.88%2007	BOS	2,970,755	17.47%2008	BOS	3,048,250	20.53%

source - BOS attendance

ETA NY data change from 1988

1989	NYY	2,170,485	-17.59%1990	NYY	2,006,436	-23.82%1991 	NYY	1,863,733	-29.24%1992 	NYY	1,748,737	-33.60%1993 	NYY	2,416,942	-8.23%1994 	NYY	1,675,556	-36.38%1995 	NYY	1,705,263	-35.25%1996 	NYY	2,250,877	-14.54%1997 	NYY	2,580,325	-2.03%1998 	NYY	2,955,193	12.21%1999 	NYY	3,292,736	25.02%2000 	NYY	3,055,435	16.01%2001 	NYY	3,264,907	23.97%2002 	NYY	3,465,807	31.59%2003 	NYY	3,465,600	31.59%2004 	NYY	3,775,292	43.35%2005 	NYY	4,090,696	55.32%2006 	NYY	4,248,067	61.30%2007 	NYY	4,271,083	62.17%2008 	NYY	4,298,655	63.22%

source - NYY attendance

[NewMarketSean]

I'm not implying that for some reason we give up on the plan to get better...that would be foolish....my point is that, if fans of the "enemy" are coming to our Yard, then there must be a better way of maximizing profits for the good of the organization and at the same time, discouraging the attendance of opposing fans because of the amount of money they would have to pay. Orioles fans would still have a good opportunity to come via the walk-up ticket buyer.

Angelos is making money hand over fist with these games though. He doesn't want to discourage Yanks or Sox fans from coming to these games...he'd lose money!

[howie14]

To be fair, we also lost about 500,000 in 2006 once the Nats were firmly established (they arrived in 2005, remember). That was a 12% loss in just that year. We were fifth in the AL in attendance the year the Nats came, tenth thereafter.

They were running at about the 30% decline rate 8 years into "the streak".

Here's the Sawx attendance figures...

The dreaded Yanks numbers...

And our hometown heroes...

Have fun...

[howie14]

Angelos is making money hand over fist with these games though. He doesn't want to discourage Yanks or Sox fans from coming to these games...he'd lose money!

Which is why I find it interesting that the team made a Sawx game in June one of the Dugout Club games this year. He lost a chunk of REAL attendance that night.

[freelancer]

Angelos is making money hand over fist with these games though. He doesn't want to discourage Yanks or Sox fans from coming to these games...he'd lose money!

You don't make the ticket prices astronomically high. You just do it in such a way that they have to also pay for tickets to other games. For instance, what if they made it to where the ONLY way to get a reserved ticket to a Red Sox or Yankees game at Camden Yards is by purchasing a bundle of tickets that includes seats to Royals and Oakland games? Idiot Yankees and Red Sox fans will probably still come to the games but now the O's have made more profit in the long run. My idea is not perfect but I do think there is a better way to capitalize on the demand.

[tom smith]

So I should shell out roughly $100 to be surrounded by jerkoffs while watching my perennially losing team play another meaningless game in September?

Screw off.

Boy some Baltimore Fan you are. Why don't you change your name because Baltimore Fan your not.