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Are the Orioles committed to winning?


JTrea81

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I'll reference this quote from Drungo:

I really hate to say it, but NewMarketShawn is starting to look pretty realistic. I guess I didn't want to believe that they'd be so obvious in ending the season the first week of September.

From the way MacPhail has said he's approaching things, he's ending the season before it starts next year as well...

This organization does not seem committed to winning, bottom line. They are committed to following a plan, that is to rebuild with youth, but there's nothing that's been done that shows we want to win at the ML level.

Instead we've won fewer and fewer games since MacPhail has taken over.

While going with youth is a great idea, it'd be nice to see MacPhail state a deadline for the rebuilding to be over. He's implied it, but he hasn't come out and said this is when we want to win and this is the date we are focused on winning.

Instead he keeps pushing back the date fans expect, however he's been so vague about when that is, that some fans still continue to support his methods, making excuses for why it is taking so long to get to a winning level.

After this season we are going to have had 12 years of losing, 2.5 of them under Andy MacPhail, and yet there still seems to be no urgency.

The payroll is dropping as well as the wins, and I will point out that if we go into the season with under a 60 million dollar payroll it will drop us down into a bracket where we start getting even more revenue sharing money, as a reward for refusing to spend.

It is looking more and more like this organization is more commited to making a profit, than winning games. And this rebuilding movement with youth seems more and more like a smokescreen and an excuse IMO to lower payroll even though the Orioles are making a ton of money from MASN and MLB.

MacPhail can change that perception, but he's got to be straight up with the fans. Set a deadline publicly, and go for it. Throw us a bone, so we can at least think that there will be an end to this losing sometime soon. He's got the resources to improve this club over the offseason and at least try to win games next year and it would sure be nice if he used them.

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Instead we've won fewer and fewer games since MacPhail has taken over.

Well, a large part of that is due to trading our best hitter and our best pitcher for a boatload of prospects.

Did you expect him to make the team a winner over night? No one EVER said 2009 was going to be a winning year.

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Of course they are. Just not right now. They see that, under the current system, it's smarter to come right out and say they're giving up on the last month of the season than risk injury to players who are crucial to winning in 2010 and beyond.

Actually, I don't blame MacPhail or the rest of the Orioles organization. Wht they're doing is probably best for the long term success of the franchise. I blame Major League Baseball for allowing a team to come right out and say they're not going to try for a month, and let there be no repercussions.

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Unless we go for a Matt Holliday or Lackey, I don't know how many mid level FA guys we could sign to get us up to 60 million.

I don't know what your talking about changing the dates. I thought 2011/2012 was always the plan. Why else would he extend Roberts instead of trading him?

I am still hoping AM open up the pocketbook and signs Matt Holliday.

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Of course they are. Just not right now. They see that, under the current system, it's smarter to come right out and say they're giving up on the last month of the season than risk injury to players who are crucial to winning in 2010 and beyond.

Actually, I don't blame MacPhail or the rest of the Orioles organization. Wht they're doing is probably best for the long term success of the franchise. I blame Major League Baseball for allowing a team to come right out and say they're not going to try for a month, and let there be no repercussions.

Good point. It's like that guy in fantasy baseball or football who starts all his bench players out of spite because his team is so bad, thus giving his competition automatic wins down the stretch.

Nothing the Orioles are doing is intentional, and all reflects a long-term plan, but it's still pretty sad to see it happen over and over again in B-more.

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Instead he keeps pushing back the date fans expect, however he's been so vague about when that is, that some fans still continue to support his methods, making excuses for why it is taking so long to get to a winning level.

No, you choose to interpret parsed bits of informal conversations as "pushing back the date."

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To me next year is the starting point. The bad contracts he inherited will be gone, the team has a young core, and the Minor League teams have prospects instead of suspects. MacPhail has tried to win in Minnesota and Chicago. Maybe he's doing it just to annoy Hangouters.:laughlol:

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No, you choose to interpret parsed bits of informal conversations as "pushing back the date."

Has he actually set a date though?

I haven't heard him toss out a year. And until he does that, he can keep the team in a "rebuilding" state as long as he wants IMO, or at least until there's so much public outcry that Angelos fires him, and that would be counter to Angelos' benefit, because Andy is saving and making Angelos a ton of money.

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AM is committed to winning eventually--he's doing what he thinks will best position the O's to win a championship sometime in the next 5 years, and for the most part I agree with what he's doing.

He was never committed to winning in 2009. Shutting down young players and pitchers early to protect them from injuries is just another illustration of the philosophy that's governed all of his decisions this season--the emphasis is on building the team for the future, not winning games this year.

I have my doubts that he is committed to winning in 2010. We'll know more after we see what kind of moves the club makes in the offseason and what the composition of the team is coming out of spring training. If we sign guys at the Ty Wigginton level or below for 1B/3B, sign nobody of consequence for the bullpen, and go into next season with guys like Ray, Albers and Meredith making up a good chunk of the bullpen, then I'd say he's not committed to winning in 2010.

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Has he actually set a date though?

I haven't heard him toss out a year. And until he does that, he can keep the team in a "rebuilding" state as long as he wants IMO.

There are way too many variables to take into consideration by setting a date. In baseball there are no guarantees that prospects will turn out to be good MLB players, so by setting a date you would essentially set yourself up for failure because who knows what will happen between now and that day/year.

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