This is "blow it up"

[wildcard]

Our pen has not been appreciably better in 2007 when compared to 2006.

I totally agree. Bad luck (Ray, Loewen and Penn's injuries) played a part in that. So did Baez stinking it up. The O's added two good relievers. They needed more. It's a hard fact.

[wildcard]

First of all, you are looking at the wrong teams.

Look at Atlanta...That is who we should strive to be...Not one year wonder teams.

Atlanta competed by a great farm system, smart trades, keeping their own and filling in the gap with a few FAs here and there.

The Orioles will have to wait another 2-3 years to build that young talent and then, a few years after that, they could maybe start a good run.

However, there is no reason to wait that long.

The whole process(which they have taken far too long to do) could be sped up tremendously by trading some of the top guys.

When did the Braves ever blow it up? When did they trade all their good veteran players for young players? I will have to do some research on it, but I sure don't remember them trading good players in their prime like Roberts and Bedard.

When they traded Millwood is was to lower salaries.

These are good questions to look at though.

[skornya]

Throw this team out there

C-Wieters

1b-JR House

2b-Luis Jiminez

ss-Hernandez

3b-Scott Moore

lf-Reimold

cf-Majewski

rf-Markakis

dh-Knott

Penn

Liz

Olson

Guthrie

Dcab

Atleast it would be fun to watch

Fun? Only if you're a follower of the Marquis de Sade. You put a starting lineup like that out there, you're looking at a team that will OBLITERATE the Tigers record for most losses in AL history. Penn, Liz, and Olson haven't proven they can get anyone out at the major league level, Cabrera is a million dollar arm with a five cent head and a career ERA over 5.00, and Guthrie has all the makings of a one year flash. House, Knott, and Moore are 4A guys, Majewski and Jiminez are AA+ guys, Reimold has never seen a pitch above AA, Wieters has never played as a professional, and Hernandez couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat. You put this team on the field, it'll be the biggest joke in baseball history.

[oriole_way]

This is a hard problem. I don't have all the answers. But I think there have been more teams that have kept their good players and fixed their holes and won then teams that have blown it up and been successful in a two year period..

I would point to the Tigers and Cubs. They both are in pennant races. They both were losers. I think we should look at how they turned it around.

I am open to discussing any other team you want to talk about. But I think we need to look at what has worked in the past.

Ummm, the Tigers did rebuild through their farm system. Sure they added players like Magglio and Rodriguez.

But look at players like Curtis Granderson, Jeremy Bonderman, Justin Verlander, Nate Robertson, Joel Zumaya, Fernando Rodney. They've also got Camerin Maybin (a future star IMO), Andrew Miller and went over slot to draft Porcello this year. They traded for Carlos Guillen.

[Sports Guy]

When did the Braves ever blow it up? When did they trade all their good veteran players for young players? I will have to do some research on it, but I sure don't remember them trading good players in their prime like Roberts and Bedard.

When they traded Millwood is was to lower salaries.

These are good questions to look at though.

They didn't...But they went through years of being awful and built their team the right way...The Orioles aren't doing that.

So, to speed up this process and not wait another 4-5 years, trade these guys now and we can start this immediately.

[wildcard]

Ummm, the Tigers did rebuild through their farm system. Sure they added players like Magglio and Rodriguez.

But look at players like Curtis Granderson, Jeremy Bonderman, Justin Verlander, Nate Robertson, Joel Zumaya, Fernando Rodney. They've also got Camerin Maybin (a future star IMO), Andrew Miller and went over slot to draft Porcello this year. They traded for Carlos Guillen.

I am pretty sure they got Bonderman and Robertson in trades.

[wildcard]

They didn't...But they went through years of being awful and built their team the right way...The Orioles aren't doing that.

So, to speed up this process and not wait another 4-5 years, trade these guys now and we can start this immediately.

But are there any model teams of "blow it up"? Where has it worked?

[Sports Guy]

But are there any model teams of "blow it up"? Where has it worked?

The Marlins.....

[srock]

It is true that relying on young players coming through the farm is wrought with risk; if they don't pan out then the franchise is in trouble.

Is is also true that trading our talented, more experienced players for more prospects has the same basic risk. These players still may not pan out.

Trading these guys for youth may not work out. Realistically, this is a risk that must be mitigated. What is the plan if the youth movement has not produced a competitive team in 2010? I think the plan is obvious; try again. Most likely SOME players from the youth movement will become valuable commodities Trade them for more young players. Eventually the farm system will be deep enough to produce 2-3 major league ready players every year. It may take 10 more years to get there, but hey, if they did this 10 years ago, we might be having this argument today.

[wildcard]

The Marlins.....

Are they really the model you want to follow?

I will take the Tigers as a model over the Marlins any day. The Marlins may have won the WS twice, but I don't see teams holding them up as a model to follow.

[bej6789]

Stephen A. Smith once said about the 76ers:

"You can not make the playoffs without Allen Iverson"

We can finish in 4th place and lose 17-2 without Miguel Tejada, Melvin Mora, Brian Roberts.... If we're not going to build around the talent we have now, then blow it up and try to build it around potentially a lineup consisting of Rowell, Wieters and Reimold is my best guess. I'd negotitate with Bedard for a while, and if it's clear he's not going to resign I'd trade him this offseason as well. The Marlins got Hanely Ramirez for Beckett, a cornerstone in the making. We need to blow the team up and we need to get the young cornerstone for our young studs (hopefully) in the making. I can take a rotation of:

Loewen

Olson

Guthrie

Cabrera

Penn

for a year, if it means we're in it for something bigger. Get players along the same lines of Hanley Ramirez, or Anibal Sanchez, or Mark Teahen in an offseason. The Orioles need to figure out how to get this thing started again. It's obviously not working as is, so blowing it up the right way can ease some of the pain.

[srock]

Are they really the model you want to follow?

I will take the Tigers as a model over the Marlins any day. The Marlins may have won the WS twice, but I don't see teams holding them up as a model to follow.

The Marlins are a great farm system to follow. Everything else is of ill repute.

[Sports Guy]

Are they really the model you want to follow?

I will take the Tigers as a model over the Marlins any day. The Marlins may have won the WS twice, but I don't see teams holding them up as a model to follow.

The model is Atlanta...The "quickness" of it is where you use the Marlins.

[Lt Melmo]

Stephen A. Smith once said about the 76ers:

"You can not make the playoffs without Allen Iverson"

And God once said about Stephen A. Smith: "I'm sorry. I got carried away. Please don't listen to Stephan A. Smith, no matter how loud he yells."

[RShack]

Look at Atlanta...That is who we should strive to be...

OK, good idea. Now, help me out here... exactly what year was it that the Braves traded away all their best players? No? It never happened? OK, then the Marlins: rapid turnover and zero staying power. They don't fit your alleged-model either. Face it, SG, there is no historical precedent for successfully doing what you propose. None. Nada. Zilch. I've asked you before if what you propose has ever worked, ever, even once, in the entire history of baseball. Your answer: don't know, don't care, that doesn't matter. In short, your answer boils down to "trust SG because SG says so". That's not a good answer.