This is "blow it up"

[PaulFolk]

LOL. You're insane.

We've got guys who aren't ready (Liz) playing alongside players who never were ready (Bell). If you think this is the kind of talent we can get for Tejada, Roberts and Bedard, you need to check the water you're drinking.

Anyways, it's better to lose with young players with potential than overpaid players hanging on to a few more AB's in the league.

This is one of the dumbest threads in a long time.

I don't know. I just saw one from a supposed O's fan rooting for his team to lose 100 games. That one's in the running.

[twoBshorty]

But are there any model teams of "blow it up"? Where has it worked?

Arizona Diamondbacks? They won a WS by digging themselves into a huge financial hole, paid the price for a few years, traded off parts and had some good drafts, and now they're back in first place again.

[srock]

OK, good idea. Now, help me out here... exactly what year was it that the Braves traded away all their best players? No? OK, then the Marlins: rapid turnover and zero staying power. They don't fit your model either. Face it, SG, there is no historical precedent for successfully doing what you propose. None. Nada. Zilch. I've asked you before if what you propose has ever worked, ever, even once. Your answer: don't know, don't care, that doesn't matter. Not a good answer.

The Marlins have done exactly what the Orioles need to do. They traded a bunch of talented players in a huge fire sale thus stocking the farm system. They have since continued to trade players nearing free agency to keep the farm system stocked. This is exactly what the Orioles need to do.

Unfortunately for the Marlins, they don't have a stadium, fan base, revenue stream, or much else to capitalize on this flow of talent. This part of the Marlins we want no part of.

[RShack]

Arizona Diamondbacks? They won a WS by digging themselves into a huge financial hole, paid the price for a few years, traded off parts and had some good drafts, and now they're back in first place again.

That's not the claim. The claim is that you become a *consistent contender* by getting rid of all your good players. There is no example of this ever working. None. On the other hand, there are various examples of consistently competitive franchises, of which the O's used to be the most compelling. They never did anything even close to what SG proposes. Face it, people are getting snowed by a snake oil salesman.

[RShack]

The Marlins have done exactly what the Orioles need to do.

Only if you want 1-year-wonders. The goal is to be a *consistent contender*. People, the Marlins are in LAST PLACE. Their record is WORSE than the O's. Jeez, will you please look around at the reality that exists beyond the hype you're being fed around here?

[BigDawg819]

Only if you want 1-year-wonders. The goal is to be a *consistent contender*. People, the Marlins are in LAST PLACE. Their record is WORSE than the O's. Jeez, will you please look around at the reality that exists beyond the hype you're being fed around here?

The Marlins have just had a bad year of starting pitching for the most part, other then that they usually contend. Their way would actually work for us because the main reason they can't keep the talent they produce is lack of revenue, whereas we have the ability to pay to keep the talent we produce. Its only a question of will we.

[RShack]

News Flash: the problem is not the lack of some Special Radical Strategy that has never worked before, but somehow will suddenly work magically in Baltimore. That is NOT THE PROBLEM. The problem is that we have not had sustained more-than-competent leadership in the Warehouse. That's the problem.

Why is this so hard for people to understand? Maybe it's because people are so frustrated that they fall for over-simplistic, one-dimensional, magic-goes-here, sound-bite answers. Like the one that said tax cuts will cure everything and trusting the inherent goodness of big corporations will lead us all to the Promised Land. Look, creating a consistent contender is a HARD PROBLEM. It is not easy. If it was easy, everybody would do it. Anybody who tells you it's easy is feeding you BS.

[wildcard]

I think all these suggestions are good. We should look closely at Atlanta, the Marlins, D'back and Tigers. See how they really did it. Which one is the right model for the O's.

So far I agree with rshackelford that "blow it up" has never been done. Not is a sustained way.

I think most O's fans are so disenchanted right now that 'blow it up' is a reaction to express thier dissatifaction. However I think that what fans really want is the best way to a sustainable long term successful team that is achievable is the shortest development time.

Maybe by looking at the approaches that these teams took we can find a way that a lot of us can agree on.

[srock]

Only if you want 1-year-wonders. The goal is to be a *consistent contender*. People, the Marlins are in LAST PLACE. Their record is WORSE than the O's. Jeez, will you please look around at the reality that exists beyond the hype you're being fed around here?

No team has ever become a consistent contender from a fire sale alone, I won't dispute this. The teams that have recently become consistent contenders (Oakland, Minnesota) both did it by building their farm system via all means at their disposal. Oakland basically did have a fire sale, it just wasn't by trades. They let all those free agents walk in order to get the mother load of draft picks. From this base, they have built a farm system capable of consistently producing major league talent. Consistently producing major league talent correlates directly to an organizations ability to build a 'consistent winner'.

Trading Tejada, Bedard, Roberts, et. al. is the Baltimore Orioles equivalent of Billy Beane's boatload of draft picks.

[RShack]

No team has ever become a consistent contender from a fire sale alone, I won't dispute this.

Thank you for not being completely insane ;-)

Trading Tejada, Bedard, Roberts, et. al. is the Baltimore Orioles equivalent of Billy Beane's boatload of draft picks.

I might consider this after the O's have hired Billy Beane to work in the Warehouse, and after he looks at both the organization and the books, and after he then then tells us this is so. Until then, it's just another hype-based assertion. In the meantime, the solution is not based on trading everybody who's any good. The solution is based in having talent running the FO. If we have talent running the FO, then we defer to that talent... because a highly talented GM is better at being a GM than we are. The idea that people on a message board know how to be a top-tier GM is absurd. The idea that there is an oh-so-very-easy plan that will solve everything is absurd.

[BigDawg819]

Thank you for not being completely insane ;-)

I might consider this after the O's have hired Billy Beane to work in the Warehouse, and after he looks at both the organization and the books, and after he then then tells us this is so. Until then, it's just another hype-based assertion. In the meantime, the solution is not based on trading everybody who's any good. The solution is based in having talent running the FO. If we have talent running the FO, then we defer to that talent... because a highly talented GM is better at being a GM than we are. The idea that people on a message board know how to be a top-tier GM is absurd. The idea that there is an oh-so-very-easy plan that will solve everything is absurd.

I disagree vehemently! I'm a kickass GM on Madden there buddy!

[RShack]

I disagree vehemently! I'm a kickass GM on Madden there buddy!

I see the smiley, and I appreciate the good humor... but in all seriousness, I fully believe that fantasy baseball is at least half the problem re: people having delusional ideas about how easy it is to successfully run a big league club... people get way involved in playing complex-but-crude simulations that are based entirely on a demonstrably inadequate statistical model of baseball... and after a while they start confusing Fake Baseball with Actual Baseball... and, next thing you know, some of them think that they deserve to be a big league GM...

[oriole_way]

I am pretty sure they got Bonderman and Robertson in trades.

I'm sorry. I should have been more clear.

What I meant to say is that they acquired many talented young players (via draft or trade) as the basis for their turnaround.

[safoster]

When did the Braves ever blow it up? When did they trade all their good veteran players for young players? I will have to do some research on it, but I sure don't remember them trading good players in their prime like Roberts and Bedard.

When they traded Millwood is was to lower salaries.

These are good questions to look at though.

Ugh, the Braves have an excellent farm system. Look at all their young guys that come up and produce. Look at what they traded for Teixiera. Look at the Richmond Braves probably getting more fans to their games than the O's do to Camden. Thats why they don't blow it up. That and they win.

[BigDawg819]

I see the smiley, and I appreciate the good humor... but in all seriousness, I fully believe that fantasy baseball is at least half the problem re: people having delusional ideas about how easy it is to successfully run big league club... people get way involved in playing complex-but-crude simulations that are based entirely on a demonstrably inadequate statistical model of baseball... and after a while they start confusing Fake Baseball with Actual Baseball... and, next thing you know, some of them think that they deserve to be a big league GM...

I agree with that sentiment but with this team's abysmal performance of the past decade, its hard to imagine anyone doing any worse. With that said, the sentiment from this board that the farm system has to improve is dead on, that spending on average over the hill players has to stop is dead on, and that the front office has been a joke is dead on so its not like everyone is totally wrong about things?