Trembley on "Average 3Bman" RBIs

[Lucky Jim]

Oh, so ole Hack Wilson knocking in 190 runs didn't mean he was a good hitter that season?:rofl: It doesn't take an Einstein to want him anyday in anyone's lineup.:eektf:

Yes. That's exactly what I said. Thanks for playing.

[Old#5fan]

Yes. That's exactly what I said. Thanks for playing.

Well you did post that rbi's don't reflect the quality of a hitter so if that is true, ole Hack must not have been much of a hitter that season. I mean if you make a statement like that man up and own it!:angryfire: There is nothing worse than a waffler in my view. Maybe, just maybe you should have posted that sometimes rbi's don't reflect the quality of a hitter. That I would agree with, but you didn't.

[Lucky Jim]

Well you did post that rbi's don't reflect the quality of a hitter so if that is true, ole Hack must not have been much of a hitter that season. I mean if you make a statement like that man up and own it!:angryfire: There is nothing worse than a waffler in my view. Maybe, just maybe you should have posted that sometimes rbi's don't reflect the quality of a hitter. That I would agree with, but you didn't.

Nothing I've said "waffles."

[TyCobb]

Well you did post that rbi's don't reflect the quality of a hitter so if that is true, ole Hack must not have been much of a hitter that season. I mean if you make a statement like that man up and own it!:angryfire: There is nothing worse than a waffler in my view. Maybe, just maybe you should have posted that sometimes rbi's don't reflect the quality of a hitter. That I would agree with, but you didn't.

Is your logic really that bad?

[El Gordo]

Reading some of these posts reminds me of a 12 year old playing with a flight similator on his computer, reaching the skill level of landing his fighter plane on an aircraft carrier, then thinking this qualifies him to do it for real. Does any one here actually know DT well enough to know whether he appreciates the limits of RBI's in measuring a hitter's production or not? It seems so basic that one would assume he does. I can't imagine why else some people would need to make such a big deal out of his sound bite other than a need to puff themselves up.

[Old#5fan]

Nothing I've said "waffles."

Well, then if that is what you think than now I can assure you that you are just flat out wrong in making such a statement. If rbi's do not reflect the skill of a hitter than 190 rbi's by Hack Wilson would indicate what? That he was not a good hitter that season he was a good hitter, or nothing at all? :scratchchinhmm:

If you answer other than he was a good hitter that season you are certifiably wrong beyond any normal way of thinking when it comes to the sport of baseball.

If I ever drove in 190 runs in a season I would be the cockiest sob that ever lived and it wouldn't be because I wasn't good at what I did. If you deny that wasn't a great example of hitting and hell of a feat by Wilson you are nuttier than a 50 pound bag of cashews.:laughlol:

[Stotle]

Reading some of these posts reminds me of a 12 year old playing with a flight similator on his computer, reaching the skill level of landing his fighter plane on an aircraft carrier, then thinking this qualifies him to do it for real. Does any one here actually know DT well enough to know whether he appreciates the limits of RBI's in measuring a hitter's production or not? It seems so basic that one would assume he does. I can't imagine why else some people would need to make such a big deal out of his sound bite other than a need to puff themselves up.

Speaking for myself, I guess it's more of a question as to why he would say something that is so analytically poor in this day and age. I don't have any opinion on his qualifications to manage, his analytical skills, really anything about him. When a thread was posted asking for changes we would make if we were made manager, I had none and stated I have no way of knowing how to improve on something I understand so poorly. I have no idea about the interworkings of Trembley's managerial duties and express no opinion on his ability to perform his duties.

I do think it's worth noting his statements to the press. Does it mean he doesn't know what he's doing? No, of course not. But don't you have to at least ask yourself why he'd say something like that? To me it isn't troublesome, but it's certainly curious.

[Old#5fan]

Speaking for myself, I guess it's more of a question as to why he would say something that is so analytically poor in this day and age. I don't have any opinion on his qualifications to manage, his analytical skills, really anything about him. When a thread was posted asking for changes we would make if we were made manager, I had none and stated I have no way of knowing how to improve on something I understand so poorly. I have no idea about the interworkings of Trembley's managerial duties and express no opinion on his ability to perform his duties.

I do think it's worth noting his statements to the press. Does it mean he doesn't know what he's doing? No, of course not. But don't you have to at least ask yourself why he'd say something like that? To me it isn't troublesome, but it's certainly curious.

I think DT would think half the posters on this thread are so out of touch with normal baseball thinking that he would be laughing his rear end off if he ever read this thread.:laughlol:

[Lucky Jim]

Well, then if that is what you think than now I can assure you that you are just flat out wrong in making such a statement. If rbi's do not reflect the skill of a hitter than 190 rbi's by Hack Wilson would indicate what? That he was not a good hitter that season he was a good hitter, or nothing at all? :scratchchinhmm:

If you answer other than he was a good hitter that season you are certifiably wrong beyond any normal way of thinking when it comes to the sport of baseball.

If I ever drove in 190 runs in a season I would be the cockiest sob that ever lived and it wouldn't be because I wasn't good at what I did. If you deny that wasn't a great example of hitting and hell of a feat by Wilson you are nuttier than a 50 pound bag of cashews.:laughlol:

And if this is what you think I said, you're dumber than a box of hair.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Reading some of these posts reminds me of a 12 year old playing with a flight similator on his computer, reaching the skill level of landing his fighter plane on an aircraft carrier, then thinking this qualifies him to do it for real. Does any one here actually know DT well enough to know whether he appreciates the limits of RBI's in measuring a hitter's production or not? It seems so basic that one would assume he does. I can't imagine why else some people would need to make such a big deal out of his sound bite other than a need to puff themselves up.

The only thing worse than someone who spends their time talking about something as though they can do it is someone who spends their time lecturing that person.

[Stotle]

I think DT would think half the posters on this thread are so out of touch with normal baseball thinking that he would be laughing his rear end off if he ever read this thread.:laughlol:

I have no choice but to be agnostic as to DT's baseball acumen. I would feel as comfortable bashing his intellect as I would making this above statement about his understanding of "normal baseball thinking" being vastly superior to people here -- that is to say, not at all comfortable in either case.

[Big Mac]

I can't believe this bumbling troll is still permitted to post here.

[El Gordo]

Speaking for myself, I guess it's more of a question as to why he would say something that is so analytically poor in this day and age. I don't have any opinion on his qualifications to manage, his analytical skills, really anything about him. When a thread was posted asking for changes we would make if we were made manager, I had none and stated I have no way of knowing how to improve on something I understand so poorly. I have no idea about the interworkings of Trembley's managerial duties and express no opinion on his ability to perform his duties.

I do think it's worth noting his statements to the press. Does it mean he doesn't know what he's doing? No, of course not. But don't you have to at least ask yourself why he'd say something like that? To me it isn't troublesome, but it's certainly curious.

For me it is very simple. I have a number of friends who are avid, what I would call mainstream media, baseball fans. They follow their teams in the box scores, read articles in the paper and watch games on TV. They know a decent amount about the history of the game and who the good players are around the league. But they are over 30 and to talk to them about the difference btween RBI's, wOBA and OPS would just leave them with eyes glazed over. If I waned to tell them what I wanted from 3B next season, 90-100 RBI's would be clear to them. An .850 OPS would mean nothing. These are the kind of people DT is talking to when he has his media ops.

[BaltimoreTerp]

For me it is very simple. I have a number of friends who are avid, what I would call mainstream media, baseball fans. They follow their teams in the box scores, read articles in the paper and watch games on TV. They know a decent amount about the history of the game and who the good players are around the league. But they are over 30 and to talk to them about the difference btween RBI's, wOBA and OPS would just leave them with eyes glazed over. If I waned to tell them what I wanted from 3B next season, 90-100 RBI's would be clear to them. An .850 OPS would mean nothing. These are the kind of people DT is talking to when he has his media ops.

That doesn't mean anything other than those fans, whether purposely or not, are uninformed.

[Stotle]

For me it is very simple. I have a number of friends who are avid, what I would call mainstream media, baseball fans. They follow their teams in the box scores, read articles in the paper and watch games on TV. They know a decent amount about the history of the game and who the good players are around the league. But they are over 30 and to talk to them about the difference btween RBI's, wOBA and OPS would just leave them with eyes glazed over. If I waned to tell them what I wanted from 3B next season, 90-100 RBI's would be clear to them. An .850 OPS would mean nothing. These are the kind of people DT is talking to when he has his media ops.

That's fine, so long as you are confident DT is speaking to these fans, as opposed to sharing their perspective. Personally, I think it is sloppy wordsmithing if he's just trying to "connect" with the average fan -- but I readily admit that I may be judging too harshly. In the end, I don't think it matters one way or the other.

All that said, as BaltimoreTerp posted in this thread, these concerns about reaching the average fan didn't stop Theo Epstein from stating this in an interview:

“That’s not true. With RBIs, yes. Based on his skill set, he’s always going to have underwhelming RBI totals. I couldn’t care less. When you’re putting together a winning team, that honestly doesn’t matter. When you have a player who takes a ton of walks, who doesn’t put the ball in play at an above average rate, and is a certain type of hitter, he’s not going to drive in a lot of runs. Runs scored, you couldn’t be more wrong. If you look at a rate basis, *Name Withheld* scores a ton of runs.

“And the reason he scores a ton of runs is because he does the single most important thing you can do in baseball as an offensive player. And that’s NOT MAKE OUTS. He doesn’t make outs. He’s always among our team leaders in on-base percentage, usually among the league leaders in on-base percentage. And he’s a really good base runner. So when he doesn’t make outs, and he gets himself on base, he scores runs — and he has some good hitters hitting behind him. Look at his runs scored on a rate basis with the *Team Withheld* or throughout his career. It’s outstanding.

“You guys can talk about RBIs if you want, I just … we ignore them in the front office … and I think we’ve built some pretty good offensive clubs. If you want to talk about RBIs at all, talk about it as a percentage of opportunity but it’s just simply not a way or something we use to evaluate offensive players.”

Deep down I don't care that Trembley said what he did. But I would certainly prefer what Theo said, if given the choice.