Red Sox looking at Hanley Ramirez, shouldn't the O's?

[El Gordo]

I'm not sure if Lackey and Han Ram are linked. I can see them giving the farm to get Han Ram, no problem with or without getting Lackey.

Ortiz's production dropped and while he might be able to eek out a similiar performance next year, everyone knows he's on the decline. Boston could use a .950 OPS performer who hasn't hit his peak yet and someone who can steal 20-30 bags.

They'll hold onto whatever young pitching they have.

To get HanRam they will have to give up at least Bucholtz and Bard, along with the farm. They will have to fill that slot in the rotation and most likely Wakefield's as well. They won't have their top MiL SP prospects because they wil have gone to FL as well. They will have to go for a FA SP.

[Arthur_Bryant]

And it's why we need to actually do something this offseason to try to counter those moves. The Red Sox and Yankees will only continue to get better.

You got to love it when fans from those teams are talking Lackey/Gonzalez/Fielder/Holliday and we are talking about Troy Glaus and Nick Johnson...

If the Red Sox are able to pull this off, it's because they have patiently built up a tremendous farm system over the course of more than half a dozen years. The trades you often propose would gut the system that the Orioles have begun to build.

Don't you understand that there is no shortcut to getting where the Red Sox are now? Two years ago the O's were virtually bankrupt in talent up and down the system. If you want the O's to be able to toss couple of their best young pitchers and two or three top prospects into a trade for a superstar, without missing a beat in the talent pipeline, you're going to have to wait, because you don't get there from zero in two years.

[Os_Watcher]

I keep reading about how deep Boston's farm system is... If that is true (likely) then it seems to me we keep building our own. Once it really is stocked we can consider making moves like that. Until then lets just stay the course we are on and make improvements in measured steps.

Teams that do have exceptionally deep farm systems didn't get it that way in 3 years time. It likely took 8 or 9 years to do that... We probably won't take that long but really will one player dig the Orioles out of a hole? I don't think so.

I like veteran players to mix with young players.

[Moose Milligan]

To get HanRam they will have to give up at least Bucholtz and Bard, along with the farm. They will have to fill that slot in the rotation and most likely Wakefield's as well. They won't have their top MiL SP prospects because they wil have gone to FL as well. They will have to go for a FA SP.

I hear ya, but from SG's gloomy forecast, it seems like they won't have a hard time stockpiling the farm again.

The Sox are gonna be fine no matter what they do, IMO.

[El Gordo]

I hear ya, but from SG's gloomy forecast, it seems like they won't have a hard time stockpiling the farm again.

The Sox are gonna be fine no matter what they do, IMO.

Not if they make stupid moves like trading away too much pitching for one player. Read what Theo says in my signature. I'm pretty sure he'll follow his own advice. They don't need Ramirez at SS, they should sign Lackey and find a catcher.

[Moose Milligan]

Not if they make stupid moves like trading away too much pitching for one player. Read what Theo says in my signature. I'm pretty sure he'll follow his own advice. They don't need Ramirez at SS, they should sign Lackey and find a catcher.

I agree, but only he can deem if they need Ramirez or not. Personally I can see why they'd want him, a .950 OPS from the SS position would look pretty good in that lineup.

I can see where they're coming from in wanting Ramirez but I see your points as well.

[El Gordo]

I agree, but only he can deem if they need Ramirez or not. Personally I can see why they'd want him, a .950 OPS from the SS position would look pretty good in that lineup.

I can see where they're coming from in wanting Ramirez but I see your points as well.

Pitching, pitching, pitchng. The Sux could win with Izzy at SS, and a rotation of Beckett, Lackey, Lester, Dice-K, and Bucholtz.

[GoldGlove21]

Well, if you are the Orioles, you would be happy that the Red Sox trade 4 or 5 very good young players...However, since they trade pitching away, they probably add Lackey and get HRam...Their ML club is much better and they still have a deep and talented farm system and will just spend in the draft and Internationally next year to replenish what they lost.

This is a very good point. It is a double edge sword in our case. If they get Hanley it hurts us because it makes Boston that much better, but at the same time, it has the potential to help us. Boston would have to give up a very strong package to get HRAM. Would you be willing to give up the following package for HRAM and then extend to him at upwards of $20 Million a year?

Tillman, Arrieta, Snyder, Pie, and Mickolio.

Boston could offer up Lars Anderson, Buchholz, Baird, Reddick, and another player for HRAM and still have the funds to sign Lackey.

I think I would take the Red Sox package, but I do not feel that the packages are that far apart from one another in terms of talent.

Hanley and Lackey would have a greater impact on the Red Sox than any single first baseman they could sign not named Pujols.

[birdman57]

This is a very good point. It is a double edge sword in our case. If they get Hanley it hurts us because it makes Boston that much better, but at the same time, it has the potential to help us. Boston would have to give up a very strong package to get HRAM. Would you be willing to give up the following package for HRAM and then extend to him at upwards of $20 Million a year?

Tillman, Arrieta, Snyder, Pie, and Mickolio.

Boston could offer up Lars Anderson, Buchholz, Baird, Reddick, and another player for HRAM and still have the funds to sign Lackey.

I think I would take the Red Sox package, but I do not feel that the packages are that far apart from one another in terms of talent.

Hanley and Lackey would have a greater impact on the Red Sox than any single first baseman they could sign not named Pujols.

I agree totally with you on your last point. That said, this would be a tremendous cost for us in terms of talent and money. My concern is this Tejada all over again??? HRam is a great hitter but very average fielder. No question he would look great in this lineup but in doing so we give up a ton of pitching (I don't FLA would have much interest in Snyder, or Pie) and would limit our abliity to go after someone like AGon. Both players would totally gut our farm system. As much as I love HRam, common sense says we should focus on filling our obvious need and go after AGon at a significantly lower price. Just my two cents:)

[Tx Oriole]

It's smart if they can do it. Gets around the limit on # of farm teams, etc.

The MFY's used to do the same thing with the KC A's...

You mentioned the KC A's. Boy does that ever bring abck memories. As for Ramirez i agree with SG that the cost is way too much for the O's.

[Crazysilver03]

Kind of tired here of us constantly going after the older vet player or young project player. Was reading the NY Post today where they speculated Hanley Ramirez would be actively pursued by the Red Sox. My issue is why shouldn't the O's be going after an all-star SS only at 26 years old for next baseball season? Would seem to me to make too much sense.

http://origin-nyp.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/red_sox_need_mending_xPL7Ky2WEDEuZ3BmggCBUO

Let me get this straight. You are upset with the Orioles because the NY Post is speculating that the Red Sox will try to trade for Ramirez. There is no evidence whatsoever to confirm or deny this.

You don't know if the Orioles are making a play for Ramirez or not. You don't know if the Red Sox actually are or not.

Would you be content if the Washington Post ran a story saying "you can expect the Orioles to attempt to trade for Ramirez?" It would be the opinion of the reader and most people would be satisfied because that is what they want to hear.

[Sports Guy]

Not if they make stupid moves like trading away too much pitching for one player. Read what Theo says in my signature. I'm pretty sure he'll follow his own advice. They don't need Ramirez at SS, they should sign Lackey and find a catcher.

But remember, they will prepared to give up a monster package for Halladay.

HRam is much younger and under control for a lot longer...and is very affordable.

This is a good idea for them....They are so deep in their system and with the way they spend in amateur talent, it won't take long to replenish the system.

[SilentJames]

And it's why we need to actually do something this offseason to try to counter those moves. The Red Sox and Yankees will only continue to get better.

You got to love it when fans from those teams are talking Lackey/Gonzalez/Fielder/Holliday and we are talking about Troy Glaus and Nick Johnson...

The difference is resources. Boston has much greater depth in their minor leagues right now. The Orioles system is very thin at the moment because we called most of our guys up.

Even last year's system which was ranked much higher than it usually is or has been in the last 7-8 years was a core of A guys, and then a pretty steep drop.

The Orioles do not have the guns to trade away to get HRam. They have spare cash to go after players, and so long as they stay out of a bidding war with the Sox and Yankees, they have a shot at landing some key FA's even if they have to drastically overpay.

Would you trade Tillman? Matusz? Would you scorch the Earth to get HRam? Are the Orioles in a position to do that? I don't think they are.

Lackey will be in Boston in April - I've been saying that for a long time now and I think Boston's early exit cinches that. With Wagner retiring I doubt they move Papelbon either.

We need to go hard after Harden, trade for Hardy and (if he becomes available) go after Akinori Iwamura to serve as a stop-gap at third. Cheaper and better option than Figgins.

Trea - you have to understand that we are NOT trading away our top pitching talent. We are NOT trading away the core. And you will NOT get HRam with a package of Hernandez/Berken/Mickolio/Turner/Snyder.

[waroriole]

If the Red Sox are able to pull this off, it's because they have patiently built up a tremendous farm system over the course of more than half a dozen years. The trades you often propose would gut the system that the Orioles have begun to build.

Don't you understand that there is no shortcut to getting where the Red Sox are now? Two years ago the O's were virtually bankrupt in talent up and down the system. If you want the O's to be able to toss couple of their best young pitchers and two or three top prospects into a trade for a superstar, without missing a beat in the talent pipeline, you're going to have to wait, because you don't get there from zero in two years.

He absolutely does not understand that.

[Enjoy Terror]

The Orioles can't compete with that. The Orioles need whatever prospects they can get to fill out their MLB team.

The Red Sox are filled; they don't need prospects at this point. The Red Sox don't need Bard, Bowen or Buchholz really. They need a SS that isn't Jed Lowrie. With that they have a full outfield, a full infield, and a full pitching staff. Their only goal now is to upgrade from good to great. Orioles are still upgrading from bad to good. When the Orioles are completely "good", then they can start moving excess for "great".

That's the difference.