Jump to content

Mark Belanger 4th Worst.......


olehippi

Recommended Posts

This is an interesting article, although I don‘t necessarily agree with the position of certain players. I put it in the MLB section because it's basically not Oriole related.

In fact for the Orioles, there is only Mark Belanger, who the author says was the 4th worse hitter in MLB history….and he’s probably right. But……

…..even though Belanger seldom hit his weight, he stands as a testament to the importance of top notch defense. During Belanger’s 16 years with the Orioles, he won 8 Gold Gloves, and the Orioles won 6 AL Championships, and played in 5 World Series. Which in my mind proves that sometimes it’s not all about hitting….great defense is just as important.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/joe_posnanski/10/14/best.hitters/index.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Between 1968, Belanger's first full season, and his last (non-strike) with the Orioles in 1981, the Orioles scored:

579 (14th in the AL in 2009)

779 (8th) (AL Champ)

792 (7th) (WS Champ)

742 (11th) (AL Champ)

519 (14th)

754 (10th) (ALE Champ)

659 (14th) (ALE Champ)

682 (13th)

619 (14th)

719 (13th)

659 (14th)

757 (10th) (AL Champ)

805 (5th)

So while you are right that great defense IS important, all it shows is that the times were different.

Over the past five years, the fewest runs an American League playoff team scored in a season was 741 by the 2005 White Sox. The Orioles of that era scored less than that six of 13 seasons. And if you raise it to the next highest level, the 2005 Angels at 761, you'll notice four of their six playoff appearances fall lower than that.

EDIT: Or another way of putting it; his best year was 1976 when his OPS+ was 100, exactly league-average. His OPS that year was .661.

This season, a 101 OPS+ for a shortstop was .775, or Erick Aybar.

So in his absolutely best season, he was as good as an average hitter. His career OPS+, 68, would be just north of Yuniesky Betancourt 66, at a .625 OPS, and he's considered pretty much the worst everyday player in baseball (partly because his defense stinks, too).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So while you are right that great defense IS important, all it shows is that the times were different.

Over the past five years, the fewest runs an American League playoff team scored in a season was 741 by the 2005 White Sox... The Orioles of that era scored less than that six of 13 seasons. And if you raise it to the next highest level, the 2005 Angels at 761, you'll notice four of their six playoff appearances fall lower than that.

Yeah, well, maybe teams are scoring like crazy because Belanger isn't playing. The guy quits and scoring goes through the roof.

If what you're trying to say is that we need another Belanger, I agree.

;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is why I'm very happy that the Orioles have Cesar. I can deal with the lack of power because he makes some tremendous plays in the field.

You know what's interesting? Of the shortstops with at least 400 PAs and 900 innings (his baselines, basically), he is the third-best in baseball defensively (UZR/150), and second-worst offensively (OPS).

I'd prefer someone more balanced, personally.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting that most of the time Belanger hit for a 742 OPS or better in years were the O's went to the post season. This was true in 5 out of 6 times they went to the post season. Most of the time when Belanger had less then a 742 OPS season the O's did not go to the post season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting that most of the time Belanger hit for a 742 OPS or better in years were the O's went to the post season. This was true in 5 out of 6 times they went to the post season. Most of the time when Belanger had less then a 742 OPS season the O's did not go to the post season.

And 1980, the last year on the list, he had one of his best OPS's and we were the first team ever in divisional play to win 100 games and not make the playoffs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In fact for the Orioles, there is only Mark Belanger, who the author says was the 4th worse hitter in MLB history….and he’s probably right.

That's the 4th-worst hitter among players who got 6000 plate appearances. There have been over 15000 major league players, only 538 of them got to 6000.

I'd guess that there are thouands of people who've appeared in major league games whe were worse hitters than Mark Belanger. Mostly pitchers, but also guys like Jose Morban.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.



  • Posts

    • I agree with RZNJ for the most part, but some it will depend on their performance in extended spring training. Estrada obviously has the most advanced bat and he could be given the Bencosme experience, so he could find himself in Delmarva earlier, especially when/if Holliday is promoted to Aberdeen. Right now you have to imagine that Holliday is the starting Delmarva SS and Angel Tejada is the 2B to start the year.  If he looks ready, Estrada could skip the FCL and go straight to Delmarva and play 2B with Tejada being more of a super utility between 2B, 3B, and SS on occasion. De Los Santos will be the 3B. Now when/if Holliday is promoted, who plays SS at Delmarva? Adam Crampton could be there to play for a bit, but they may already have him backing up in Aberdeen. A healty Anthon Servideo cold also be a choice to hold it down for a bit. I don't see them pushing Hernandez to Delmarva after his awful FCL season, so that could in theory open up a spot for Amparo or Arias to go up and play there as the SS but i really think the orioles would prefer to ease them in through the FCL.  
    • BTV guesses Pablo's two years to go worth about 6% more than Mullins three years to go, though up around $35-40mm much of their ranges overlap. It guesses the four years of Trevor Rogers are the closest precise match for Mullins straight up, and Jesus Luzardo's four years would get you about 75% of the way to fair Mullins value. It's interesting the gap between Seth Johnson and Chayce McDermott in Tony's rankings - the Rays let Johnson go to get Jose Siri as a re-seed of the Kiermaier type player.    Mullins and Pablo make for an interesting debate how a Genuine CF and Pretty Good Pitcher contrast for run prevention. Since everyone's a hedge fund manager, I'm sure all are trying to squeeze each other for that 2%.    I bet Sig and Oz Ocampo got on well back in the day. Putting more eggs in 2 years of Pablo Lopez when you are subtracting Mullins from those rosters feels like a lot of faith for me in a Good not Great pitcher.    If we want to play the innings games with Lopez, he's had intermittent shoulder strains and before 2022's 180, 110 was his previous high.     That's not necessarily damning - pitchers are being intentionally trained to strain their mechanisms and if they tap out around 140-ish innings, just get another Driveline Student of the Week. But I wouldn't expect Pablo Lopez in 2023 to be much more effective than a bullpen day in October if he completed 32 starts and needed to go in Game 2.     Also true of Taillon, Manaea, etc, but at least there Mullins helping the Club finish sixth or better in the league, no sure thing even with both those talents.
    • Haskin is one of these weird guys whose good OBP is largely driven by getting hit by pitches.   Last year he had 43 walks, 24 HBP.  He also was HBP 20 times in 2021.   Seems like we always have a couple of these guys. 
    • Lowther is the only guy that I would say has little chance to rebound back onto the list unless he shows back up a new pitcher next spring.  All of the guys that dropped off are still interesting and worth following, but they have things they need to improve on and prove next year. I'll probably end up going out to 75 again so you'll see some of these guys in that 31-50 range.
    • Pinto was real close to being at the end of the list along with Rhodes and Armbruester. Pinto's size, his mediocre fastball (91-93), and the fact a lot of  his swing and miss were on chases on the slider or split change makes me want to see him prove it against Double-A pitching.  I was too aggressive with his ranking last year for sure.  Rhodes almost made it, but I just don't see the carrying tool that will allow him to be a starter. He's similar to Haskin and I just prefer Haskin a bit more because he's started to get to his game power a bit while Rhodes has never really shown game power. Rhodes does have better plate discipline and is a good defender on the corners with better speed than Haskin, but Haskin has performed ok at a higher level so he gets the nod for me. Saying that, they are very similar profile guys.
    • The MLB Network had a writer covering the Marlins on the other day and she mentioned Mullins for Lopez and seemed to indicate the Marlins may have to add someone else. I wonder if that is an even trade or if we have to add someone. It seems to me that trading for a young pitcher and signing a veteran would be the best use of our resources.
    • Asking here as honestly have no clue, is the Fan Cost Index sensitive to StubHub, Seatgeek, etc?     My guess is it uses the Clubs List Price, but like everything else in the world that's just the starting point of a negotiation. Now that the team is better and the kiddo old enough, will probably get back more next season, but know I'm behind on the most efficient consumer practices for any given day.     The Yard won't be as full as it'll get in a few years, so imagining surge pricing will only be taking baby steps in 2023.
  • Popular Contributors

  • Popular Now

×
×
  • Create New...