Glaring Difference In Comparing Orioles to Angels and Yankees!

[GoldGlove21]

Hallelujah. This is why I don't understand the philosophy of "buy the bats, grow the arms." Why limit yourself this way? I admire that it's a "take" and a philosophy. But what's the rationale?

When you can completely change the balance of any 5-game series if you have three stud starters... why wouldn't you make your #1 priority every season to have the three BEST TOR starters in your division - whether you bought them, grew them or beamed them in from Planet Zebulon?

Hell. If the Orioles would have landed Sabbathia and Burnett and Pettite this year - which is what the Yankees did (Pettite was a FA, yes?) - and the Yankees would have had Wang, Hughes, Chamberlain and whoever else starting 1,2,3... you really think the Orioles would not have won the season series?

My point is... I hope Andy expands his philosophy to include top-tier FA pitchers... and that he starts this year. The other thing is, FA starters make even more sense when you realize that they don't have to have much chemistry with the rest of the team (other than the catcher). A "lone wolf" FA starter who's kind of a jerk, like Clemens, can still win you World Series rings... unlike a "lone wolf" free agent outfielder like Milton Bradley who is out there EVERY game rubbing his teammates the wrong way, etc.

That's why I think MacPhail's philosophy is backwards on this question. I would prefer we buy the starters (only elite ones) and grow the bats.

The rationale is to make sure your fan base understands that the team is not likely to pay a ton for a starting pitcher. Hitters are much more of a sure thing than pitchers and they get on the field everyday verses every fifth day. I am ok with Andy MacPhail's plan and I am fairly patient, but come 2011 his plans might need to change if a large number of our young pitchers can not put it together. In all honesty, Fielder and say a fully developed Josh Bell, Matt Wieters, Nolan Reimold, and Adam Jones in addition to Markakis and Roberts make our lineup one of the best in the game IMO. A batting order is so much easier to fix then a bullpen or starting rotation is.

This team will be solid in 2011, there is very little doubt in my mind.

[El Gordo]

Hallelujah. This is why I don't understand the philosophy of "buy the bats, grow the arms." Why limit yourself this way? I admire that it's a "take" and a philosophy. But what's the rationale?

When you can completely change the balance of any 5-game series if you have three stud starters... why wouldn't you make your #1 priority every season to have the three BEST TOR starters in your division - whether you bought them, grew them or beamed them in from Planet Zebulon?

Hell. If the Orioles would have landed Sabbathia and Burnett and Pettite this year - which is what the Yankees did (Pettite was a FA, yes?) - and the Yankees would have had Wang, Hughes, Chamberlain and whoever else starting 1,2,3... you really think the Orioles would not have won the season series?

My point is... I hope Andy expands his philosophy to include top-tier FA pitchers... and that he starts this year. The other thing is, FA starters make even more sense when you realize that they don't have to have much chemistry with the rest of the team (other than the catcher). A "lone wolf" FA starter who's kind of a jerk, like Clemens, can still win you World Series rings... unlike a "lone wolf" free agent outfielder like Milton Bradley who is out there EVERY game rubbing his teammates the wrong way, etc.

That's why I think MacPhail's philosophy is backwards on this question. I would prefer we buy the starters (only elite ones) and grow the bats.

Hampten, Zito, Brown, Pavano, Schmidt, Bedard, just to name a few. Bying SP is always iffy at best and always very expensive. Bats can be cheaper and much more reliable.

[scOtt]

The bottom line is that Andy MacPhail said we are out of Phase I and are going to make a significant improvement in the standings.

We can't do that by signing a bunch of stopgaps and retreads IMO.

Maybe we'll win 75-80 games, but we'll still likely be in 4th-5th place.

It's now time for him to back up his words with big moves this offseason.

I don't disagree, necessarily. He DOES need to back up his words with actions. THIS offseason and offseasons to come. I just have faith that he will, and you and others don't.

[Old#5fan]

One question, why is this thread rated "bad" when there has been so many levels of discussion engaged as a result of it?

I would really like to see those who voted it "terrible" man up and say who they are and why? Is that asking too much to ask for someone to stop being a weasel and come out of the woodwork and explain?:scratchchinhmm: I know this won't happen because there is no legitimate reason for voting that way. Obviously most posters don't agree or there wouldn't be such ongoing great discussion! :angryfire:

[MemorialStadKid]

One question, why is this thread rated "bad" when there has been so many levels of discussion engaged as a result of it?

I would really like to see those who voted it "terrible" man up and say who they are and why? Is that asking too much to ask for someone to stop being a weasel and come out of the woodwork and explain?:scratchchinhmm: I know this won't happen because there is no legitimate reason for voting that way. Obviously most posters don't agree or there wouldn't be such ongoing great discussion! :angryfire:

Read my signature line.

MSK

[Flosman]

One question, why is this thread rated "bad" when there has been so many levels of discussion engaged as a result of it?

I would really like to see those who voted it "terrible" man up and say who they are and why? Is that asking too much to ask for someone to stop being a weasel and come out of the woodwork and explain?:scratchchinhmm: I know this won't happen because there is no legitimate reason for voting that way. Obviously most posters don't agree or there wouldn't be such ongoing great discussion! :angryfire:

I think some of it is that you are a lightning rod for people to neg rep something. But while I don't agree with much of anything you write I don't think I have negatively repped you or one of your threads ever and I really don't see the point of anyone else doing so either. What you posted in the OP is the exact reason we can't afford to make a Fielder or Agon trade. Until our pitching makes it to the majors and PROVES it is competitive with the big dogs we have to hold on to all of our young pitching. It is an frustrating process but it is the only way we get to the level we have to get to. I know some poster will beg to differ but I just do not see the logic in thinking otherwise.

[byrdz]

I think some of it is that you are a lightning rod for people to neg rep something.

I could care less about thread ratings, and so should he, kinda childish if you ask me. It's also not very groundbreaking information, sorry. This is all obvious stuff most of us that have been watching the team all season already know. Someone that didn't know the talent differences between the Yanks/Angels and Orioles before now must have not watch a single game against them this season.

My only wish for the bullpen is that Albers isn't back in it and that they get good enough SP that they don't get overworked.

[BRobinsonfan]

I know this won't happen because there is no legitimate reason for voting that way. :angryfire:

See... there's a primary example of why I generally don't like your threads and why I believe so many of them end up getting locked. You think anyone who has a different opinion from yours is stupid, naive, lacks your superior baseball knowledge, etc., etc., etc., etc.

I don't think you're looking for a discussion so much as agreement for validation or an argument for attention.

Just like you said in the opening post...

Anyone who actually thinks the Orioles could possibly compete with either of these teams next season is living in Fantasy Land.

Doesn't seem to me that you're actually inviting a discussion here. You're just proclaiming "the truth" which would be obvious to the rest of us if we were just lucky enough to have watched as much baseball as you. An attitude that's particularly galling to me since I'm almost your same age.

Do we really need yet another one-dimensional thread about how putrid the team performed this year? I don't think any of us (many of us) are delusional enough to think this team was ready to compete this year or will be in serious contention for the post season next year. We get it. We really do.

Some posters (not necessarily just you) take the attitude that they're some how doing a service to the team, i.e. "I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take this anymore..." Seeming to say that by incessantly complaining on a message board they're going to somehow change the direction of the team.

I don't think that's going to happen. I don't think the front office really cares what we think/post on this board.

So yeah... we suck. Our record speaks for itself. The performance of the relief pitchers speaks for itself. Personally, I would rather look at the situation we're in and discuss how it could be better... i.e. Uehara, for example, should (hopefully) be healthy and in the pen next year.

You are right that the thread, despite its pedestrian beginning, has sparked some good posts and some good discussions... but just when the talk seems to be going good... you derail it with a "Look at me" post about why the thread is not rated better than it is.

It's the "Orioles Hangout" not the "OldFan Hangout." It's not always about you.

[Fan4Life]

I know some poster will beg to differ but I just do not see the logic in thinking otherwise.

Umm.. I beg to differ...

Actually.. the only issue I have is that waiting until we get to point A to make additional investments that are supposed to take us to point B, risks the production and value of those assets currently striving for point A if they never get there or arrive much later than expected. Now, I would have no problem in this scenario whereby you project when your window is and you decide to make the necessary investment whether you get to point A or not.

[lint06]

Forget about the offense comparison, I just cannot get over how extreme the difference is between the Angels/Yankees starting pitching and bullpen to the Orioles. A lot of discussion is floated around here on a daily basis about the Orioles becoming competitive in the AL East but if you just look at the difference that exists between true WS contenders in the Angels and Yankees and how their starting pitching and bullpen performs and you can see the Orioles are not even in the same zip code when it comes to talent and performance. I seriously doubt even one Oriole BP pitcher would even make either team's roster for example. Anyone who actually thinks the Orioles could possibly compete with either of these teams next season is living in Fantasy Land. You could combine the best position players, starters, and bullpen between the Orioles and Toronto and still not realistically compete with either team next year.

I think Mickolio would.

[Old#5fan]

I think Mickolio would.

Possibly, I haven't seen enough of him to know for sure. We all know that Ray looked great when first came up too. That doesn't necessarily mean all that much.

[Old#5fan]

See... there's a primary example of why I generally don't like your threads and why I believe so many of them end up getting locked. You think anyone who has a different opinion from yours is stupid, naive, lacks your superior baseball knowledge, etc., etc., etc., etc.

I don't think you're looking for a discussion so much as agreement for validation or an argument for attention.

Just like you said in the opening post...

Doesn't seem to me that you're actually inviting a discussion here. You're just proclaiming "the truth" which would be obvious to the rest of us if we were just lucky enough to have watched as much baseball as you. An attitude that's particularly galling to me since I'm almost your same age.

Do we really need yet another one-dimensional thread about how putrid the team performed this year? I don't think any of us (many of us) are delusional enough to think this team was ready to compete this year or will be in serious contention for the post season next year. We get it. We really do.

Some posters (not necessarily just you) take the attitude that they're some how doing a service to the team, i.e. "I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take this anymore..." Seeming to say that by incessantly complaining on a message board they're going to somehow change the direction of the team.

I don't think that's going to happen. I don't think the front office really cares what we think/post on this board.

So yeah... we suck. Our record speaks for itself. The performance of the relief pitchers speaks for itself. Personally, I would rather look at the situation we're in and discuss how it could be better... i.e. Uehara, for example, should (hopefully) be healthy and in the pen next year.

You are right that the thread, despite its pedestrian beginning, has sparked some good posts and some good discussions... but just when the talk seems to be going good... you derail it with a "Look at me" post about why the thread is not rated better than it is.

It's the "Orioles Hangout" not the "OldFan Hangout." It's not always about you.

I really think you have me pegged totally wrong. Of course this site is not about me or any other singular poster (except maybe Tony 0 as it is his site). I just find it annoying how some people have to denigrate threads just for the sake of it by rating it terrible. I could go with "bad" but "terrible"?

Obviously some have rated it "terrible" or it would not be rated "bad" overall as I know at least one person who rated it good. Anyway, I probably should have complained about this outside the thread in the Rant section so for that I accept my 50 lashes with a wet noodle! Anyway, your advice might be better taken if you didn't take the "out there" signature of keeping track of how many threads I have started have been locked. Do you really think that is important enough to put in your signature line?:eektf::rolleyestf::rolleyestf:

[lint06]

Possibly, I haven't seen enough of him to know for sure. We all know that Ray looked great when first came up too. That doesn't necessarily mean all that much.

Well, that's true enough, though from what I saw of him this year, I don't know that any team wouldn't want to have him in the BP to at least start the year.

[Old#5fan]

Well, that's true enough, though from what I saw of him this year, I don't know that any team wouldn't want to have him in the BP to at least start the year.

I agree he was one (probably the only one) pleasant surprise in the pen.

[ledzepp8]

I really think you have me pegged totally wrong. Of course this site is not about me or any other singular poster (except maybe Tony 0 as it is his site). I just find it annoying how some people have to denigrate threads just for the sake of it by rating it terrible. I could go with "bad" but "terrible"?

Obviously some have rated it "terrible" or it would not be rated "bad" overall as I know at least one person who rated it good. Anyway, I probably should have complained about this outside the thread in the Rant section so for that I accept my 50 lashes with a wet noodle! Anyway, your advice might be better taken if you didn't take the "out there" signature of keeping track of how many threads I have started have been locked. Do you really think that is important enough to put in your signature line?:eektf::rolleyestf::rolleyestf:

Dude, there's pretty much a general consensus on this board when it comes to you. We can't all have you pegged wrong. Perhaps it's time to take a look in the mirror.