Glaring Difference In Comparing Orioles to Angels and Yankees!

[Old#5fan]

Dude, there's pretty much a general consensus on this board when it comes to you. We can't all have you pegged wrong. Perhaps it's time to take a look in the mirror.

First of all I am not a "dude" as you chose to call me. How old are you anyway? This ain't the roaring 80's any more. How would you like it if I addressed you as "junior?" Anyway, you know what you can do with your consensus and your approach of acting like you are speaking for the silent majority or masses of this board. Unlike you, I graduated from high school and silly clicques over 36 years ago so I could care less about that sort of crap.

Believe me you may be delusional enough to think you are but you assuredly are not the board spokemaster here. If this board was made up of posters who call each other "dude" I would probably want to leap off a moving freight train. Fortunately is isnt, thank God! There are actually grownups posting here, which is what I see when I look in a mirror. So maybe you should worry about yourself instead of me when giving unsolicited advice.

[Frobby]

Want to pick another arbitrary number?

There are 7 members so you are pretty much looking at 14% increments.

The bullpen is going to have at least 3 new faces in 2010 (including Uehara and Berken/Hernandez). Johnson is most likely moved back to set-up and Mickolio actually starts the year in the majors. Hopefully, we resign Hendrickson.

It seems to me that in the last 5+ years we have tried about everything there is to try to fix the bullpen. We've tried growing our own (Julio, Ray, JJ, Parrish, etc.). We've tried bringing in expensive, well established set-up men (Baez, Walker, Bradford, Kline). We've tried the middle tier guys for $1-2 mm (Ligtenberg, DeJean, Hendrickson). We've tried Rule 5 (Bierd). We've tried the scrap heap (Cormier). We've tried trading prospects for established releivers (Grimsley). We've tried trading one reliever for another (Hawkins). We've tried small trades and waiver guys (Bass, FCab, Cherry). Really, about the only thing we haven't tried is paying top money for an established closer.

Not much has worked. BJ Ryan worked for 2-3 years (people forget that he also struggled for 2-3 years). Sherrill worked pretty well and we cashed him in. Otherwise, it hasn't been too pretty. I think we just have to keep plugging away. One day we'll get lucky and someone will shine, but relievers are fickle creatures with very few exceptions.

[Lucky Jim]

It seems to me that in the last 5+ years we have tried about everything there is to try to fix the bullpen. We've tried growing our own (Julio, Ray, JJ, Parrish, etc.). We've tried bringing in expensive, well established set-up men (Baez, Walker, Bradford, Kline). We've tried the middle tier guys for $1-2 mm (Ligtenberg, DeJean, Hendrickson). We've tried Rule 5 (Bierd). We've tried the scrap heap (Cormier). We've tried trading prospects for established releivers (Grimsley). We've tried trading one reliever for another (Hawkins). We've tried small trades and waiver guys (Bass, FCab, Cherry). Really, about the only thing we haven't tried is paying top money for an established closer.

Not much has worked. BJ Ryan worked for 2-3 years (people forget that he also struggled for 2-3 years). Sherrill worked pretty well and we cashed him in. Otherwise, it hasn't been too pretty. I think we just have to keep plugging away. One day we'll get lucky and someone will shine, but relievers are fickle creatures with very few exceptions.

The key seems to be having overflow in the starting rotation so that fringe-y and/or flawed guys with starter-like stuff get pushed to the pen. I think when that starts happening to us, with Erbe, Arrieta, Hernandez etc. (some, not all), we'll start seeing our pen seriously improve. And it will happen quickly.

[Old#5fan]

The key seems to be having overflow in the starting rotation so that fringe-y and/or flawed guys with starter-like stuff get pushed to the pen. I think when that starts happening to us, with Erbe, Arrieta, Hernandez etc. (some, not all), we'll start seeing our pen seriously improve. And it will happen quickly.

I still think it is the biggest weakness and thus concern of this team. I mean the differences in the Orioles pen and the Yankees, Boston, and Angels is astronomical. How is it they can possess bullpens that their worst guy would equal our best? (So it seems anyway). Maybe the Orioles just need to copy what they do?

[Lucky Jim]

I still think it is the biggest weakness and thus concern of this team. I mean the differences in the Orioles pen and the Yankees, Boston, and Angels is astronomical. How is it they can possess bullpens that their worst guy would equal our best?

You mean, you still think this since you posted it ad infinitum over the last two days? Great. But, honestly, most of us assume your take on things isn't going to change, so there's probably no need to remind us.

As I said, I think we're at a point where our starting rotation overflow is going to lead to a very talented pen.

[Old#5fan]

You mean, you still think this since you posted it ad infinitum over the last two days? Great. But, honestly, most of us assume your take on things isn't going to change, so there's probably no need to remind us.

As I said, I think we're at a point where our starting rotation overflow is going to lead to a very talented pen.

Maybe so, but I am a skeptic when it comes to assuming a shaky starting pitcher will necessarily become a good bullpen guy. Perhaps that may come to pass but I wouldn't bank on it. I just think all the approaches tried in the past by the team have failed as Frobby pointed out. So they need to emulate the approach used by those teams with great pens. It seems to be the only way to go IMO.

[Lucky Jim]

Maybe so, but I am a skeptic when it comes to assuming a shaky starting pitcher will necessarily become a good bullpen guy. Perhaps that may come to pass but I wouldn't bank on it. I just think all the approaches tried in the past by the team have failed as Frobby pointed out. So they need to emulate the approach used by those teams with great pens. It seems to be the only way to go IMO.

I think you'll find that most of the great relievers (thought not all) have been failed starters.

[Old#5fan]

I think you'll find that most of the great relievers (thought not all) have been failed starters.

At one time I believe that was true but I am not sure if you would actually analyze all of the bullpen pitchers on the current teams in the playoffs that would be the case. It would be interesting to know though but sounds like a time consuming project or exercise.

[Lucky Jim]

At one time I believe that was true but I am not sure if you would actually analyze all of the bullpen pitchers on the current teams in the playoffs that would be the case. It would be interesting to know though but sounds like a time consuming project or exercise.

Eh. You may be right. Of course, it also depends on how you define great.

[Jimbo81]

At one time I believe that was true but I am not sure if you would actually analyze all of the bullpen pitchers on the current teams in the playoffs that would be the case. It would be interesting to know though but sounds like a time consuming project or exercise.

Brian Bruney- MI RP

Phil Coke- MI SP

Phil Hughes- MI SP & ML SP

Joba- MI SP & ML SP

Demaso Marte- MI SP & RP ML RP

MO- MI SP & ML SP

Just about all the MFY's RP's were SP's at one point.

[Lucky Jim]

Brian Bruney- MI RP

Phil Coke- MI SP

Phil Hughes- MI SP & ML SP

Joba- MI SP & ML SP

Demaso Marte- MI SP & RP ML RP

MO- MI SP & ML SP

Just about all the MFY's RP's were SP's at one point.

I was thinking specifically of Yanks and Sox.

[Crazysilver03]

At one time I believe that was true but I am not sure if you would actually analyze all of the bullpen pitchers on the current teams in the playoffs that would be the case. It would be interesting to know though but sounds like a time consuming project or exercise.

Real contributions take time...dude.

[Jimbo81]

I was thinking specifically of Yanks and Sox.

Didn't want to do the Sox. It makes me angry...

The only way to build a good bullpen is with to much SP's and you can never have too much SP, so...

[Jimbo81]

Real contributions take time...dude.

Must spread rep

[ledzepp8]

Real contributions take time...dude.

Haha...don't call him dude. It angers him and you don't wanna see him when he gets angry.