Viviano Show Question O's/Phils

[Old#5fan]

So you watched him for 9 games this year and and maybe 10-15 games last year....

Nice sample size. You should be a scout.

I don't need to see all 36 of his homers to know he has power though, now do I?:laughlol:

[ejf1025]

I don't need to see all 36 of his homers to know he has power though, now do I?:laughlol:

That's not what you've said.

I think he's a damn fine player...I have not nearly watched enough of his long stride to determine who is the better baserunner however....neither have you. Clearly.

Again, you make sweeping, concrete claims with very little evidence...

Please talk about Jones.

[Avsfan]

I don't need to see all 36 of his homers to know he has power though, now do I?:laughlol:

Except he plays in a kiddie stadium....

:wedge:

[Crazysilver03]

He is faster, has longer legs, and takes bigger strides. The only advantage in baserunning NM has over Werth is he hits from the left side and is a step closer to first. Most knowledgeable baseball fans though would consider the measure of baserunning skills how many steals a player has and his percentage of being caught. In each category Werth is vastly superior to Markakis, but I guess you would only want to look at that if the stats were reversed eh?:laughlol:

You are correct that Werth is a better base-stealer than Markakis. Markakis has a 2.4 SB/CS rate (36/15) in the majors and a 2.7 SB/CS rate (27/10) in the minors. On the other hand, Werth has a 8.0 SB/CS rate (64/8) in the majors and a 4.4 SB/CS rate (123/28) in the minors. Statistics do not lie. I am not going to ignore what the statistics say in one category, even if they dont help my cause, and no, if the stats were reversed, I wouldn't be using them in my argument.

But as I said, stealing bases is not the only indicator of base-running skills. Like I said, there are many facets to baserunning which I detailed above.

Also, I am glad you got your daily snipe in at someone who doesn't agree with your opinion.

I am glad that I made a great post to show how foolish yours is and you can't even respond to it.

[SilentJames]

He is faster, has longer legs, and takes bigger strides. The only advantage in baserunning NM has over Werth is he hits from the left side and is a step closer to first. Most knowledgeable baseball fans though would consider the measure of baserunning skills how many steals a player has and his percentage of being caught. In each category Werth is vastly superior to Markakis, but I guess you would only want to look at that if the stats were reversed eh?:laughlol:

Judges _ BUZZZ - I'm sorry OldFan once again you are wrong. The slightest bit of research you would have seen you are wrong, here are the facts.

Nick Markakis

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/markani01-bat.shtml#batting_baserunning

Jason Werth

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/werthja01-bat.shtml#batting_baserunning

XBT% (extra base taken on a single or double)

M-41% W-36%

1st S3 (Times as a runner on first and a single is hit and reaches third or scores)

M-12 W-9

PO (Runner picked off)

M-0 W-3

RS% (percentage of times as runner player scores)

M-11% W-10%

2nd SH (Times on second and runner scores on hit)

M-21 W-11

SO, once again, Werth is NOT VASTLY SUPERIOR to Markakis in all categories.

Once again you are proven wrong.

Just because Werth has stolen more bases does not make him a "better baserunner" It makes him a better base-stealer. When it comes to running bases Markakis was more likely to effectively take an extra base, he was more likely to score from first, and score from second. Werth was picked off three times last year, Markakis was not picked off at all.

In fact, looking at this stat again (2nd SH) Markakis for his CAREER which is 1/2 as long as Werth's has taken home from second on a single 64 times - Werth has only done this 38 times.

64 is larger than 38.

So please tell me how Werth is statistically VASTLY SUPERIOR to Markakis in all categories.

[SilentJames]

I don't need to see all 36 of his homers to know he has power though, now do I?:laughlol:

Once again, Werth has 93 career homeruns, Markakis has 77.

Now, divde those numbers by their years in the league.

93/7 and 77/4

Now, you do that - tell me which number is bigger and then tell me how much power Jayson Werth has had over his career.

[VTmook213]

Judges _ BUZZZ - I'm sorry OldFan once again you are wrong. The slightest bit of research you would have seen you are wrong, here are the facts.

Nick Markakis

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/markani01-bat.shtml#batting_baserunning

Jason Werth

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/werthja01-bat.shtml#batting_baserunning

XBT% (extra base taken on a single or double)

M-41% W-36%

1st S3 (Times as a runner on first and a single is hit and reaches third or scores)

M-12 W-9

PO (Runner picked off)

M-0 W-3

RS% (percentage of times as runner player scores)

M-11% W-10%

2nd SH (Times on second and runner scores on hit)

M-21 W-11

SO, once again, Werth is NOT VASTLY SUPERIOR to Markakis in all categories.

Once again you are proven wrong.

Just because Werth has stolen more bases does not make him a "better baserunner" It makes him a better base-stealer. When it comes to running bases Markakis was more likely to effectively take an extra base, he was more likely to score from first, and score from second. Werth was picked off three times last year, Markakis was not picked off at all.

In fact, looking at this stat again (2nd SH) Markakis for his CAREER which is 1/2 as long as Werth's has taken home from second on a single 64 times - Werth has only done this 38 times.

64 is larger than 38.

So please tell me how Werth is statistically VASTLY SUPERIOR to Markakis in all categories.

Yes, but Werth really IS taller than Markakis. That extra 3 inches proves that Werth is a better base runner! :laughlol:

[Old#5fan]

Except he plays in a kiddie stadium....

:wedge:

So does Ryan Howard. You act like Werth hits cheap shot homers. The dude has power. He's not a little guy like Markakis. He's 6'5 I believe.

[Old#5fan]

That's not what you've said.

I think he's a damn fine player...I have not nearly watched enough of his long stride to determine who is the better baserunner however....neither have you. Clearly.

Again, you make sweeping, concrete claims with very little evidence...

Please talk about Jones.

What about Jones? He has the most all around physical talent of any Oriole outfielder with Pie a close second. What else do you need to know?

[Crazysilver03]

In fact, looking at this stat again (2nd SH) Markakis for his CAREER which is 1/2 as long as Werth's has taken home from second on a single 64 times - Werth has only done this 38 times.

Once again, Werth has 93 career homeruns, Markakis has 77.

Now, divde those numbers by their years in the league.

93/7 and 77/4

Now, you do that - tell me which number is bigger and then tell me how much power Jayson Werth has had over his career.

First, great posts. I didn't realize these numbers were kept track of.

Second, talking about years in the league is not the best way to talk comparisons. Even though Werth has been in the majors for parts of 7 seasons, he only played in 41 games his first two seasons. Overall, he has played in 619 games, getting 2590 plate appearances (H+BB+HBP), for a ratio of 4.184 PA/G. Markakis has played in 626 games, getting 2932 plate appearances, for a ratio of 4.63 PA/G.

If you want to look at the HR power over their career, Werth hits a HR every 28 PAs, compared to Markakis at a HR every 38 PA. Though the two have nearly identical SLG% for their career, with Markakis' .470 compared to Werth's .467.

[SilentJames]

So does Ryan Howard. You act like Werth hits cheap shot homers. The dude has power. He's not a little guy like Markakis.

A LITTLE GUY?!

6'2 195 is little? You are insane.

[Crazysilver03]

So does Ryan Howard. You act like Werth hits cheap shot homers. The dude has power. He's not a little guy like Markakis.

Markakis is a little guy? This takes the cake for all of the stupid things ever said.

Werth has 3 inches on Markakis. Markakis has 5 pounds on Werth.

Markakis must be the smaller guy. :cussing:

[Old#5fan]

Judges _ BUZZZ - I'm sorry OldFan once again you are wrong. The slightest bit of research you would have seen you are wrong, here are the facts.

Nick Markakis

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/markani01-bat.shtml#batting_baserunning

Jason Werth

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/werthja01-bat.shtml#batting_baserunning

XBT% (extra base taken on a single or double)

M-41% W-36%

1st S3 (Times as a runner on first and a single is hit and reaches third or scores)

M-12 W-9

PO (Runner picked off)

M-0 W-3

RS% (percentage of times as runner player scores)

M-11% W-10%

2nd SH (Times on second and runner scores on hit)

M-21 W-11

SO, once again, Werth is NOT VASTLY SUPERIOR to Markakis in all categories.

Once again you are proven wrong.

Just because Werth has stolen more bases does not make him a "better baserunner" It makes him a better base-stealer. When it comes to running bases Markakis was more likely to effectively take an extra base, he was more likely to score from first, and score from second. Werth was picked off three times last year, Markakis was not picked off at all.

In fact, looking at this stat again (2nd SH) Markakis for his CAREER which is 1/2 as long as Werth's has taken home from second on a single 64 times - Werth has only done this 38 times.

64 is larger than 38.

So please tell me how Werth is statistically VASTLY SUPERIOR to Markakis in all categories.

Did it ever cross you mind the reason Markakis never got picked off is the guy takes a lead like your grandmother would (about two steps) and is about as dangerous a threat to steal as Matt Wieters? :laughlol:

Werth is a vastly superior base runner in speed, steals, percentage of steals without being caught. Markakis probably has more infield hits though as he has an extra step towards first in batting lefthanded.

[ejf1025]

What about Jones? He has the most all around physical talent of any Oriole outfielder with Pie a close second. What else do you need to know?

Um....explain your claim as to why he's the next Frank Robinson??

A claim based on what I gather was made purely on three facts: 1) they are both strong 2) they are both Orioles and 3) they are both black.

Because that's just about all they have in common.

[Old#5fan]

Once again, Werth has 93 career homeruns, Markakis has 77.

Now, divde those numbers by their years in the league.

93/7 and 77/4

Now, you do that - tell me which number is bigger and then tell me how much power Jayson Werth has had over his career.

Who cares about his career as that is not what this dicussion is even about. It is about who on the Orioles roster right NOW would replace a Phillie in the WS if Charlie Manuel could choose. That is the topic.