Number 16 Prospect: SS - Mychal Givens

[crawdad]

Ive never seen someone throw a low 3/4(side arm) splitter, have you? The slider would be the easiest pitch for him to throw from that angle. I'd think the changeup is even more doable from that arm slot than a split, but thats just me. If I remember cocrectly, Doug Jones used to have a pretty nice changeup as a side arm pitcher....

I figure they are going to change his slot. It isn't like he has any offspeed pitches right now and he should be able to keep that velocity.

[crawdad]

Why do scouts give the Rays' Beckham such a high power projection? If I recall correctly, didn't everyone believe Beckham was around 6'2" 180 and he ended up being only around 6' 170? Givens is a legitimate 6'2" 185 pounds, he has an Adam Jones build. There has to be some solid power potential there with the right coaching.

"The right coaching" is easier said than done. His batting mechanics are just not good. Beckham profiled as maybe a 15hr hitter in the majors. Givens is seen as below that.

[Tony-OH]

"The right coaching" is easier said than done. His batting mechanics are just not good. Beckham profiled as maybe a 15hr hitter in the majors. Givens is seen as below that.

I think it's too early to tell what kind of power Givens will have. He supposedly has good bat speed and a frame that should put on muscle easily. That could translate for more power. I've only seen his scouting videos so I'm mostly going off of what i heard from the instructional league, but he's got his supporters with the bat. We'll just have to wait and see.

[crawdad]

I think it's too early to tell what kind of power Givens will have. He supposedly has good bat speed and a frame that should put on muscle easily. That could translate for more power. I've only seen his scouting videos so I'm mostly going off of what i heard from the instructional league, but he's got his supporters with the bat. We'll just have to wait and see.

Fully agree. There is not a lot of information out there, so the upcoming season will inform us all a great deal.

[Arthur_Bryant]

I also imagine more scout centric guys can expound upon this, but what I see when he swing is that his leads too quickly with his front foot, resulting in a low and long swing where he has already disengaged his back foot. In short, he hits off his front foot with basically results in slapping the ball and missing it on pitches he is not expecting.

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This kind of mechanical problem is easily addressed if he is amenable to coaching and willing to put in the work.

I would be much more concerned about problems with contact skills and strike zone judgment.

[Stotle]

I think it's too early to tell what kind of power Givens will have. He supposedly has good bat speed and a frame that should put on muscle easily. That could translate for more power. I've only seen his scouting videos so I'm mostly going off of what i heard from the instructional league, but he's got his supporters with the bat. We'll just have to wait and see.

I agree with this. Unfortunately, that same broad frame is likely going to limit his range as he adds muscle, which is one of several reasons I'm not fully buying into him sticking at shortstop, long-term. He's really an odd bag of tools. Not great straight foot speed or home-to-first but gets decent reads on the bases, excellent arm but inconsistent accuracy with his arm action at short, broad frame (particularly in his upper body) that should thicken a fair amount to add strength but maybe limit range, good hands but some stiff actions, okay footwork around bag but doesn't consistently set himself up well on throws to first, potential to hit for some pop for the position but doesn't make consistent hard contact...tough to figure where he ends-up.

[Tony-OH]

I agree with this. Unfortunately, that same broad frame is likely going to limit his range as he adds muscle, which is one of several reasons I'm not fully buying into him sticking at shortstop, long-term. He's really an odd bag of tools. Not great straight foot speed or home-to-first but gets decent reads on the bases, excellent arm but inconsistent accuracy with his arm action at short, broad frame (particularly in his upper body) that should thicken a fair amount to add strength but maybe limit range, good hands but some stiff actions, okay footwork around bag but doesn't consistently set himself up well on throws to first, potential to hit for some pop for the position but doesn't make consistent hard contact...tough to figure where he ends-up.

You and me both. As I said in the write ups, he'd got work to do to stick at short, but he's better than Tyler Henson in the infield for whatever that's worth. He is certainly a wait and see guy for me as well.

[LookinUp]

I agree with this. Unfortunately, that same broad frame is likely going to limit his range as he adds muscle, which is one of several reasons I'm not fully buying into him sticking at shortstop, long-term. He's really an odd bag of tools. Not great straight foot speed or home-to-first but gets decent reads on the bases, excellent arm but inconsistent accuracy with his arm action at short, broad frame (particularly in his upper body) that should thicken a fair amount to add strength but maybe limit range, good hands but some stiff actions, okay footwork around bag but doesn't consistently set himself up well on throws to first, potential to hit for some pop for the position but doesn't make consistent hard contact...tough to figure where he ends-up.

Noting these limitations...what do you expect from a high school ss? Would it be so unusual for him to develop either his hit or fielding ability?

Seriously asking, btw.

[Stotle]

Noting these limitations...what do you expect from a high school ss? Would it be so unusual for him to develop either his hit or fielding ability?

Seriously asking, btw.

It takes a pretty outstanding fielding tool to play a ML shortstop. It isn't something that generally develops at the pro level. Sometimes you'll have a player with the raw skills (hands, range) but that struggles with stuff like footwork or setting himself up. Givens is actually stiff in his actions, particularly his upper body through his arm. He has plus hands, which helps to mitigate this, but it's going to limit the range of plays he makes at the pro level (in my opinion). Further, his frame is broad and looks to thicken, which I imagine will decrease mobility and agility, as opposed to making him more fluid.

Here are actions of a high school shortstop I'd expect to see when considering someone that can stick at the position as a pro -- Marcus Littlewood in the 2010 Draft Class (my video from Jupiter, FL):

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Regarding the hit tool, I'd be less concerned if I saw Givens make more consistent hard contact leading up to the draft. I'm worried he doesn't track the ball well to the bat, so his hands are good enough to get the barrel to the ball, but he isn't squaring-up as much as he should. Maybe it's his eyesight? I don't know. It's an issue for BAL to work out, since they're working with him on a daily basis. But I don't see his hitting shortcomings as solely mechanical.

[GoldGlove21]

It takes a pretty outstanding fielding tool to play a ML shortstop. It isn't something that generally develops at the pro level. Sometimes you'll have a player with the raw skills (hands, range) but that struggles with stuff like footwork or setting himself up. Givens is actually stiff in his actions, particularly his upper body through his arm. He has plus hands, which helps to mitigate this, but it's going to limit the range of plays he makes at the pro level (in my opinion). Further, his frame is broad and looks to thicken, which I imagine will decrease mobility and agility, as opposed to making him more fluid.

Here are actions of a high school shortstop I'd expect to see when considering someone that can stick at the position as a pro -- Marcus Littlewood in the 2010 Draft Class (my video from Jupiter, FL):

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Regarding the hit tool, I'd be less concerned if I saw Givens make more consistent hard contact leading up to the draft. I'm worried he doesn't track the ball well to the bat, so his hands are good enough to get the barrel to the ball, but he isn't squaring-up as much as he should. Maybe it's his eyesight? I don't know. It's an issue for BAL to work out, since they're working with him on a daily basis. But I don't see his hitting shortcomings as solely mechanical.

I could field like that as SS when I was 17 as well Stotle and Pirates scouts watched me play at least three seperate times. Too bad I signed with the Marine Corps before the Pirates actually made any type of advances. The scout thought I had raw power, but my contact was poor. When I hit the ball it went a long way, but I didn't swing very often because a lot of the pitches I saw were balls. I walked 44 times in 72 at bats that year. I only had 5 hits on the season (Catcher's balk, and 4 triples). I am not a very fast guy, but I have a rocket for an arm (still) and an above average glove.

My point in all this was that the Pirates were on the fence because I didn't hit as well as other kids even though I was told my glove and arm could play at advanced levels. Givens is a second rounder and he will need to hit to stay at SS. Moving to third will require him to hit at a greater clip than if he stayed at short. Are we we looking at a future second baseman when we look at this kid?

[Stotle]

I could field like that as SS when I was 17 as well Stotle and Pirates scouts watched me play at least three seperate times. Too bad I signed with the Marine Corps before the Pirates actually made any type of advances. The scout thought I had raw power, but my contact was poor. When I hit the ball it went a long way, but I didn't swing very often because a lot of the pitches I saw were balls. I walked 44 times in 72 at bats that year. I only had 5 hits on the season (Catcher's balk, and 4 triples). I am not a very fast guy, but I have a rocket for an arm (still) and an above average glove.

My point in all this was that the Pirates were on the fence because I didn't hit as well as other kids even though I was told my glove and arm could play at advanced levels. Givens is a second rounder and he will need to hit to stay at SS. Moving to third will require him to hit at a greater clip than if he stayed at short. Are we we looking at a future second baseman when we look at this kid?

Well, the question was two part -- fielding and hit tool. The actions Littlewood shows are closer to what I'd want to see out of a prep player you expect to stick at short. Littlewood may ultimately lose the range he needs, but his actions are clean and he can throw for all the necessary angles without much trouble.

Hitting, I touched on Givens's issues (in my mind) above. He doesn't make enough consistent hard contact. My concern is that it isn't so much mechanical as an issue of tracking the ball. If that concern is accurate, he'll likely have issues with pitch-ID and have difficulty commanding the strike zone, neither of which will help his power potential to shine through as he gets stronger.

No, I don't think Givens is a good fit at 2B unless he cleans-up his footwork setting himself up. Again, he's a little to stiff for my liking, when last I saw him.

Finally, cool you were such an impressive fielder. The last scout grading I saw for myself was a 45/55 current/future fielding score (that was between freshman and sophomore year of college). I got dinged some by scouts for range and was projected to 2B instead of SS (which is where I played up until college and would have played at D-III had I not elected to go to Notre Dame). Didn't have the speed/power tools needed to be a prospect or D-I player. Hit tool only projected average and was below-average (mostly due to average bat speed and strength) when I stopped playing.

[crawdad]

This kind of mechanical problem is easily addressed if he is amenable to coaching and willing to put in the work.

I would be much more concerned about problems with contact skills and strike zone judgment.

Well, to me (and there are far better folks at analyzing this stuff than me here), what concerns me is what led to this. I think often the we only need to tweak this major problem with his mechanics type of thought is that it is so obvious we see the crack, but not the termites . . . for lack of a better analogy.

I could be wrong on this. I typically prefer correcting hitters with poor mechanics that have shown some level of success anyway.

[mikezpen]

If the reports are true, I think he throws harder than he will ever hit. I just can't see why this should be the second pick of a team that drafted as high as the Orioles did. Eighth or ninth pick maybe.

[DocJJ]

This guy was projected to be a definite first rounder and some scouts thought top ten pick going into the year. 8th or 9th pick? Come on... you don't fall from first round to 9th. Are there questions about his bat and glove? Sure. But this was a fine second round pick. If he totally flails at SS and with the bat for 3 years, we have an instant closer who can reach 97 MPH.

Great pick.

[QBsILLEST1]

If the reports are true, I think he throws harder than he will ever hit. I just can't see why this should be the second pick of a team that drafted as high as the Orioles did. Eighth or ninth pick maybe.

Yeah, even though he wasn't drafted as a pitcher, it is obvious that is the back up plan, and no pitchers from HS that throw into the upper 90's will drop that low unless injury or signability is a factor.

He has the tools of a 2nd rounder, no doubt, the problem is that he IS project. Other teams took more safer prospects in the 2nd round whose skills are more refined, and its mroe obvious what kind of prospect you have with them. With Givens, it is going to take some time to mold him, but if we put in the time, it seems that he could turn into something great. He could also go the opposite way and falter. Personally I will be interested to see how he does vs. Avery and even Hoes at other levels. Also Michael Ohlman and Kyle Hoppy will be good ones to compare Givens' successes with IMO just because theyare both out hitters out of HS.