Schmuck: O's need a middle of the order bat

[Lucky Jim]

You would be surprised at how many people really do believe that we don't need to make any improvements to the team.

Can you find those posts? I've seen people say that we need to time our improvements, and that they're not immediately necessary. I've seen no one say that we don't need to make any improvements to the team.

When you say stuff like this, you should really support it with actual posts.

Sure, these posts can be found by looking up any thread that I have been a part of where there has been a suggestion to actually spend money on an elite free agent. I am tired of having that conversation.

The relevant posts. If they don't say we don't need to make any improvements, they don't support his point. He's already said those very posts are available.

[waroriole]

I am half-done with my search. Copying and pasting onto a word document.

Sorry, I have a life guys. I will be finishing this soon.

MSK

Why don't you show us what you've got so far?

[TommyD4207]

He said "many people think we don't need to make any improvements."

I'm not sure why it's so difficult to tell if a post says we don't need to make "any improvements" or not.

Here here, I actually agree with you completely in everything that you've said in this thread.

What I'm saying is, is that I see a scenario in which MSK gives a bunch of quotes where he's like "Well, see, here they MEANT that they don't think any improvements are necessary."

That's what I'm trying to say. Because I don't ever remember seeing someone saying "we don't need to make any improvements" I'm guessing that MSK is going to paste some posts that he's made inferences on and that will likely lead to disagreement about whether or not they qualify for "we don't need any improvements."

[Lucky Jim]

Here here, I actually agree with you completely in everything that you've said in this thread.

What I'm saying is, is that I see a scenario in which MSK gives a bunch of quotes where he's like "Well, see, here they MEANT that they don't think any improvements are necessary."

That's what I'm trying to say. Because I don't ever remember seeing someone saying "we don't need to make any improvements" I'm guessing that MSK is going to paste some posts that he's made inferences on and that will likely lead to disagreement about whether or not they qualify for "we don't need any improvements."

Yeah - sorry...didn't mean to challenge you. He's already tried to move the playing field once. I'm sure he'll do it again. I just wanted to be clear about what I was responding to.

[TiredofLosing20]

Yeah - sorry...didn't mean to challenge you. He's already tried to move the playing field once. I'm sure he'll do it again. I just wanted to be clear about what I was responding to.

We know LJ but can't you just see the posts stating that "we aren't that far away" and "we can make up significant ground by just letting our prospects grow" being issued as evidence of people suggesting we don't need to make "any" improvements.

Oh well, all you have to do is read thru the thread to see he already backed off of the "any" argument.

[RShack]

I wish I had a dollar for every time you typed "some folks".

Well, "some folks" like to believe I'm "dissing the whole board" when I disagree with them. So, I've learned to make a point of saying "some" to make it clear that I'm not talking about everybody. Not that it does any good.

I used to say "some guys" in place of "some folks", but one particular poster who likes to make a federal case out of every little thing (a person not named SG) would have a fit and insist that I was referring to SG when I said "some guys", due to the initials of those two words. If that poster had been paying attention, he would have realized that I wrote "Some Guys", not "some guys" when I intended to do that ;-)

[srock]

Trea, I distinctly remember you flipping out last offseason and saying we needed to land Tex because there wasn't going to be anything good in the 2009-2010 offseason.

Spare me the hysterics.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

Who doesn't? :scratchchinhmm::clap3:

Ahhh, I'll be chuckling about this post all day...

[Sports Guy]

Well, "some folks" like to believe I'm "dissing the whole board" when I disagree with them. So, I've learned to make a point of saying "some" to make it clear that I'm not talking about everybody. Not that it does any good.

I used to say "some guys" in place of "some folks", but one particular poster who likes to make a federal case out of every little thing (a person not named SG) would have a fit and insist that I was referring to SG when I said "some guys", due to the initials of those two words. If that poster had been paying attention, he would have realized that I wrote "Some Guys", not "some guys" when I intended to do that ;-)

Am I the only who finds it amusing that Rshack, of all posters, is accusing some other poster(s) of making a federal case about something? :laughlol::rofl:

[RShack]

You're wrong here. A lot of teams that don't have money this offseason will have money next offseason and in future offseasons. Our payroll room advantage that we have now is going to be shortlived.

The Tigers, Red Sox, Yankees, Mets, Dodgers etc. all have major contracts coming off the books in the next few years. Just look at this chart of guaranteed salaries (not including arb players):

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p4ew-fwu2XT3cpPRtt9qIGw

So we need to take advantage of that opportunity while we have it, otherwise, we'll have even more competition when we need to add a lot more pieces than if we ramp up now while we have a financial advantage.

So, in other words, the situation is oh-so-urgent and if we don't take dramatic and expensive headline-grabbing action now, we're doomed because we won't have as good a chance later. You do realize that this is your standard position all the time, don't you?

The name of the expensive player we urgently need to grab keeps changing, but your position is always the same: "The O's need to act Right Now to get [Player X] or we're doomed! And even worse, my neighbors will continue to wear their BOS merchandise with pride, and I won't be able to wear my O's merchandise with pride."

[tropicos]

Not to intrude upon the inner sub-argument of this thread, but I just want to throw my 2 cents in.

Last year (and arguably this year as well) we were looking for a long-term 1B. Tex was an ideal match. We failed. Done. For those who feel that 'we should've offered more $$$ b/c then we would have our 1B solution,' there's no guarantee he would've come here for more money or that NY wouldn't have just outbid us anyway. It's a moot point.

This year, some fans clamor over the likes of Bay and Holliday and are disappointed that we aren't going to pony up the $$$ to sign them and therefore we aren't looking to make improvements. The logic does not follow here. We don't need another OF, i.e. Bay and Holliday would not be filling holes. Even if they are better than Reimold, Pie, or Scott, it does not justify in signing either one of them.

In other words, I agree that Bay or Holliday would IMPROVE our team, but the costs involved to do so would most likely exceed the benefits. And I'm not just talking about contract costs based on peak years; signing Holliday or Bay would theoretically drive us to trade Pie or Scott or Reimold or a combination of the three. And if that's the case (in which we have signed Holliday/Bay and have not yet traded one of those 3 current O's), then we theoretically lose leverage in trade negotiations. Basically, potential buyers for those current O's would know we are in a position of surplus and the value each of those O's would go down.

[srock]

I am half-done with my search. Copying and pasting onto a word document.

Sorry, I have a life guys. I will be finishing this soon.

MSK

Why not just settle this with a poll? Decide what percentage in each category settle the bet (don't tell anyone publicly) then let the poll run for 3 days.

[Bradysburns]

Sure, these posts can be found by looking up any thread that I have been a part of where there has been a suggestion to actually spend money on an elite free agent. I am tired of having that conversation.

There are some folks here that believe that our prospects will magically develop into an elite squad like this one (Ellsbury, Pedroia, Martinez, Youklis, Ortiz, Drew, Nady, Bucholz, Beckett, Wakefield, etc.) if we just sit back and wait.

Meanwhile, the Yankees (Jeter, ARod, Tex, Damon, Matsui, Posada, Sabathia, Burnett, etc.) just seem to be getting better and better and better and better and better while we do nothing.

This conclusion is based on precedent, not conjecture.

That list of free agents will not take us to the level we need to be at, and I never said that we needed to mortgage our future for short-term success (as people are constantly accused of believing if you make the simple suggestion that we spend money), but we definitely need to do SOMETHING as a show of faith for the ever-dwindling fanbase to show that we are serious about contending at some point in the future.

The OH is not representative of the average Orioles fan or Baltimore resident who might be moved to spend money on the team if they *gasp* started looking like a real baseball team once in a while.

If anyone believes that the Orioles can continue tanking seasons for the sake of waiting for the prospects to develop and expect to have fans in 3-5 years, you are going to be in for a big shock.

Angelos can afford for the Orioles to keep losing, but the integrity of the franchise can't wait much longer.

MSK

Bravo. This team flat-out sucks, guys. Let's be honest. There's no way of telling who's going to work out long term. I mean, what if Matusz turns out to be a bust? Impossible? What? NO WAY! Everyone in our farm system is going to be a great MLB player. Or at least 75% of them. (We'll just deftly trade away the 25% that won't work out, of course.)

Puh-lease. Talk about being unrealistic.

I think an intelligent signing isn't some mythical single "tipping point" signing that will automatically make you a contender. You might be waiting around a LONG time for that - and by that time, you'll probably have to be resigning your own pending FAs anyway.

An intelligent signing is one that serves as a building block toward a championship - and one that makes the club better now. In other words, even if we are certain not to compete for the playoffs next year, a major FA signing might still be "intelligent" - even prudent.

I get so tired of people dogging anyone who wants to sign a freakin' free agent and have some fun. Sheez.

[TiredofLosing20]

The relevant posts. If they don't say we don't need to make any improvements, they don't support his point. He's already said those very posts are available.

Bumpity Bump Bump..

Did we ever get the relevant posts stating that there are actual posters who believe we do not need to make any upgrades?

[HoodGuy007]

Bumpity Bump Bump..

Did we ever get the relevant posts stating that there are actual posters who believe we do not need to make any upgrades?

I'll raise my cyber hand.

We never need to make any improvement ever. I love being able to pick and choose what seat I sit in when I head to the Yard.

[Lucky Jim]

Bump?

Who likes strawmen? MSK does!