Schmuck: O's need a middle of the order bat

[Dr. FLK]

Hate to break it to you, but the Orioles franchise are beggars.

I agree with you, we need as much talent as we can get...but there are other ways to build a team, dude. I know you're not being intentionally obtuse so you must recognize that there are quite a few ways to skin a cat.

But how many of those ways include ignoring FAs? Even "building a team" typically involves some risks in the FA market. Unfortunately, we're usually "waiting for the market to develop" until the real FA talent is gone. Nothing says that rebuilding teams are forbidden from supplementing with actual, honest to gosh, professional athletes.

[MemorialStadKid]

I wish I understood what you're getting at but I can't say that I do. I think you like to hear yourself get a full head of steam and post like a rabid, enthusiastic win at all costs die hard fanatic.

What I am saying is this -- the Orioles have had multiple opportunities since really 2001 or so to pick up all the necessary pieces to build a contender. 2005 looked really good but we know what happened then.

It seems -- and correct me if I am wrong -- that we don't get out there and get those free agents that are available when we could have easily afforded them. Year after year goes by and we keep hearing that we are going to "improve" but we never take the steps necessary to improve.

I was just using the Red Sox as an example because they did take the steps necessary to improve through good trades and perfect signings of free agents that directly addressed the needs that they had instead of just waiting for someone to develop out of the minors to fix that hole.

We need to stop pretending that Peter Angelos is broke and has no money to spend when that simply isn't the case.

And you ask who is available on that level? John Lackey is not Pedro, but he sure would go a long way to help us strengthen the rotation and teach the younger guys a lot about the game.

Last season, Tex was available, I know he didn't "want" to play here, but he was available.

Maybe you enjoy making excuses for the ownership? That's what it seems like on your end.

MSK

[Hank Scorpio]

I don't disagree with one word of the OP, and I highly doubt MacPhail does, given what he's said to this point.

[MemorialStadKid]

But how many of those ways include ignoring FAs? Even "building a team" typically involves some risks in the FA market. Unfortunately, we're usually "waiting for the market to develop" until the real FA talent is gone. Nothing says that rebuilding teams are forbidden from supplementing with actual, honest to gosh, professional athletes.

:clap3::clap3:

:agree:

Yea, few folks around here seem to understand the concept of a precedent.

We haven't deviated from our past behavior pattern in terms of the free agent market.

Sigh.

MSK

[Mad Mark]

Beggers can't be choosers. Except for the fact that he had absolutely no desire to come to Baltimore Tex was a perfect fit. Holliday and Bay may not be perfect fits, but they do fit each as a #4 hitter.

Lackey is a perfect fit as a TOR.

And as I've said we need to ramp up our talent. We can't just keep waiting until we find the perfect fit unless we want to continue to miss the playoffs year after year. We need as much talent as we can get and with our financial situation, this is a prime opportunity to add some talent IMO.

Fixed that for ya...

[Hank Scorpio]

The markets for Holliday, Bay and Lackey keep drying up day by day. All three can improve the Orioles and could come at a discount compared to the projected contracts people project. Out of the three I think only Holliday will get a 100+ million dollar contract.

The Orioles should be in on all three of them IMO if nothing else but to drive up the price for their competitors. But if their market dries up like it seems it will, there's no reason the Orioles couldn't land one of those players.

You can say that we should wait, but if we keep waiting, we keep extending the timeline it will take to see the playoffs again. The Orioles need to ramp up to that level and I think they'll have a prime opportunity to do that this offseason seeing as the market is drying up for the top players.

The trade market also seems to be full of top names that are available due to expensive contracts, and the O's have plenty of payroll room.

Anyway you look at it, there's an opportunity to kickstart this franchise this offseason and move it closer to a competitive level.

Can you show me where you're seeing this?

I'm sure you have seen some tweets about it, but here's something to consider: Free agency hasn't even begun yet.

For someone who's supposed to be keeping his expectations tempered, you sure sound like someone with high monetary expenditure hopes.

[Moose Milligan]

What I am saying is this -- the Orioles have had multiple opportunities since really 2001 or so to pick up all the necessary pieces to build a contender. 2005 looked really good but we know what happened then.

It seems -- and correct me if I am wrong -- that we don't get out there and get those free agents that are available when we could have easily afforded them. Year after year goes by and we keep hearing that we are going to "improve" but we never take the steps necessary to improve.

I was just using the Red Sox as an example because they did take the steps necessary to improve through good trades and perfect signings of free agents that directly addressed the needs that they had instead of just waiting for someone to develop out of the minors to fix that hole.

We need to stop pretending that Peter Angelos is broke and has no money to spend when that simply isn't the case.

And you ask who is available on that level? John Lackey is not Pedro, but he sure would go a long way to help us strengthen the rotation and teach the younger guys a lot about the game.

Last season, Tex was available, I know he didn't "want" to play here, but he was available.

Maybe you enjoy making excuses for the ownership? That's what it seems like on your end.

MSK

What if we pulled off a 2005 repeat, what then? What if we traded all our prospects for 2 good guys and ended up being an 80 win team with no depth, what then?

It's not that I'm against spending money, I'm not. I just don't think this is the time nor the place to be dishing out huge contracts. Would you want Holliday and Lackey instead of tying up Jones, Matusz and Reimold?

The problem with the teams from 1999 on were that there was no organizational depth. We produced practically SQUAT from our farm system. It wasn't for a lack of spending money.

Show me where I've made excuses for the ownership. Stop putting words in my mouth.

[Mad Mark]

There are times when being on the Hangout is a lot like going on the road trip with the Simpsons: there's a bunch of kids in the back of the car going "arewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyet??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????"

Drive ya crazy if ya let it...

[Dr. FLK]

There are times when being on the Hangout is a lot like going on the road trip with the Simpsons: there's a bunch of kids in the back of the car going "arewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyetarewethereyetletsspendmoneyonplayerswhodon'twanttocomeherearewethereyet??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????"

Drive ya crazy if ya let it...

And then there are those that say:

"Wait for the market to develop and grow all of your own players because all of our homegrown kids will be amazing. Wait for the market to develop and grow all of your own players because all of our homegrown kids will be amazing. Wait for the market to develop and grow all of your own players because all of our homegrown kids will be amazing. Wait for the market to develop and grow all of your own players because all of our homegrown kids will be amazing. Wait for the market to develop and grow all of your own players because all of our homegrown kids will be amazing. Wait for the market to develop and grow all of your own players because all of our homegrown kids will be amazing. Wait for the market to develop and grow all of your own players because all of our homegrown kids will be amazing. Wait for the market to develop and grow all of your own players because all of our homegrown kids will be amazing. Wait for the market to develop and grow all of your own players because all of our homegrown kids will be amazing..."

[Hank Scorpio]

Stop the madness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[foxfield]

Beggers can't be choosers. Tex was a perfect fit. Holliday and Bay may not be perfect fits, but they do fit each as a #4 hitter.

Lackey is a perfect fit as a TOR.

And as I've said we need to ramp up our talent. We can't just keep waiting until we find the perfect fit unless we want to continue to miss the playoffs year after year. We need as much talent as we can get and with our financial situation, this is a prime opportunity to add some talent IMO.

PLAYOFFS? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? PLAYOFFS?! I'm just hoping we can win a game!

Seriously Trea...

I would love to see Lackey and do not disagree that he would be a fine addition. I do not think this is the year we see the "premium" signing though.

But that is just my opinion.

[MemorialStadKid]

What if we pulled off a 2005 repeat, what then? What if we traded all our prospects for 2 good guys and ended up being an 80 win team with no depth, what then?

It's not that I'm against spending money, I'm not. I just don't think this is the time nor the place to be dishing out huge contracts. Would you want Holliday and Lackey instead of tying up Jones, Matusz and Reimold?

The problem with the teams from 1999 on were that there was no organizational depth. We produced practically SQUAT from our farm system. It wasn't for a lack of spending money.

Show me where I've made excuses for the ownership. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Show me where I've been some rabid, die-hard, win at all costs fan that wants to mortgage our future.

But to answer your question, no I wouldn't want to give up those three guys at all.

MSK

[Sports Guy]

Eh, I've heard all that stuff before. I will believe it when I see it. Lots of teams play it cool until the deadline to offer arbitration passes, and then you see what's what. Things will move slowly until the Winter Meetings and then we will see.

Yep..Remember when the Yankees weren't interested in Tex, especially after they got Swisher?

[Sports Guy]

If MCab is put on the market, the Orioles absolutely need to see what it would take to get him.

Of course, if he did get put on the market and we do obtain him, it will just irritate me because they would have been better off paying up for Tex than trading 4 or 5 players for MCab, even if he is the better player and is younger.

[mweb]

And then there are those that say:

"Wait for the market to develop and grow all of your own players because all of our homegrown kids will be amazing. Wait for the market to develop and grow all of your own players because all of our homegrown kids will be amazing. Wait for the market to develop and grow all of your own players because all of our homegrown kids will be amazing. Wait for the market to develop and grow all of your own players because all of our homegrown kids will be amazing. Wait for the market to develop and grow all of your own players because all of our homegrown kids will be amazing. Wait for the market to develop and grow all of your own players because all of our homegrown kids will be amazing. Wait for the market to develop and grow all of your own players because all of our homegrown kids will be amazing. Wait for the market to develop and grow all of your own players because all of our homegrown kids will be amazing. Wait for the market to develop and grow all of your own players because all of our homegrown kids will be amazing..."

Except people aren't saying that.