MacPhail cites Tex offer as proof the Orioles will spend money

[El Gordo]

Even though I just said he should have upped the offer, there is something to be said about how to negotiate with Boras. You don't want to get tricked into offering way more than anyone else. So making a solid offer and saying you're flexible with it isn't a poor way to deal with Boras imo.

Either way, as I've said before, I don't think AM's negotiating tactics kept us from getting Tex, AM's limit did.

I don't think AM had reached his limit at 7/140-150. I believe, and please don't laugh too much, there was some validity to the infamous WOW offer. Just how much it would be, who knows? But had Tex come back to us and expressed a desire to play for his home town team, I believe AM would have made his best offer. It probably would have been in the neighborhood of the MFY's offer, but that is just my guess.

[JTrea81]

I don't think AM had reached his limit at 7/140-150. I believe, and please don't laugh to much, there was some validity to the infamous WOW offer. Just how much it would be, who knows? But had Tex come back to us and expressed a desire to play for his home town team, I believe AM would have made his best offer. It probably would have been in the neighborhood of the MFY's offer, but that is just my guess.

It's not up to Tex to pursue the Orioles, it was up to the Orioles to pursue Tex. That goes for any premium FA. Passive pursuits do not work for premium FAs.

Tex did not have the Orioles at the top of his list. It was up to MacPhail to convince him to play for Baltimore and he didn't make a good enough effort to do that. Pursuing FAs is his job. They aren't going to just call MacPhail up and say "we want to play for the Orioles." It doesn't work that way.

[El Gordo]

It's not up to Tex to pursue the Orioles, it was up to the Orioles to pursue Tex. That goes for any premium FA. Passive pursuits do not work for premium FAs.

Tex did not have the Orioles at the top of his list. It was up to MacPhail to convince him to play for Baltimore and he didn't make a good enough effort to do that. Pursuing FAs is his job. They aren't going to just call MacPhail up and say "we want to play for the Orioles." It doesn't work that way.

AM knew how much he could spend. He also knew that if Tex didn't want to play in B'more, it wouldn't be enough. So it only made sense to make the offer, if there was some serious home town interest. It became clear that there wasn't, so it made sense not to play Boras' game.

[twoBshorty]

It's not up to Tex to pursue the Orioles, it was up to the Orioles to pursue Tex. That goes for any premium FA. Passive pursuits do not work for premium FAs.

Tex did not have the Orioles at the top of his list. It was up to MacPhail to convince him to play for Baltimore and he didn't make a good enough effort to do that. Pursuing FAs is his job. They aren't going to just call MacPhail up and say "we want to play for the Orioles." It doesn't work that way.

And what would that have gotten him? Nothing. Boston did the whole wine-and-dine thing with the business of flying to his house and whatnot. Epstein has to be one of the best in the game at that. What did it achieve? Teixeira singled him out for praise in a newspaper interview after signing with the Yankees. Woo-hoo. Too bad MacPhail didn't get that!

I can't believe we're still rehashing all this stuff a year later. Maybe we should start lighting yahrtzeit candles on the anniversary?

[MrOrange82]

And what would that have gotten him? Nothing. Boston did the whole wine-and-dine thing with the business of flying to his house and whatnot. Epstein has to be one of the best in the game at that. What did it achieve? Teixeira singled him out for praise in a newspaper interview after signing with the Yankees. Woo-hoo. Too bad MacPhail didn't get that!

I can't believe we're still rehashing all this stuff a year later. Maybe we should start lighting yahrtzeit candles on the anniversary?

There's something to be said for driving the price up for your competition, even if you don't think you can "win."

If the Orioles had made an offer that significantly trumped that of the Yankees (not saying such an offer would have been fiscally responsible or successful...), Tex would've at least had a decent amount of union pressure coming down on him to set the market-bar high. As it happened, the Orioles weren't even in the ballpark when it came to courting Tex, and the front office chalked it up to "Tex not really wanting to play in Baltimore. We gave it a shot, oh well."

A WOW offer that isn't within 40 million dollars of the winning offer isn't a WOW offer, IMO.

[Mashed Potatoes]

It's not up to Tex to pursue the Orioles, it was up to the Orioles to pursue Tex. That goes for any premium FA. Passive pursuits do not work for premium FAs.

Tex did not have the Orioles at the top of his list. It was up to MacPhail to convince him to play for Baltimore and he didn't make a good enough effort to do that. Pursuing FAs is his job. They aren't going to just call MacPhail up and say "we want to play for the Orioles." It doesn't work that way.

I'm disappointed that you chose not to respond to my posts in this thread, not surprised, but disappointed still.

[McNulty]

I'm disappointed that you chose not to respond to my posts in this thread, not surprised, but disappointed still.

Your logic can't fit through his narrow filter.

[Moose Milligan]

Goodness, I tried catching up on this thread but just felt like repeatedly bashing my head against my desk instead. I mean, that's what reading it felt like.

And if I ruled the world TonySoprano would be in charge of the JFK investigation, Roswell and finding Hoffa's body.

[JTrea81]

I'm going to attempt to show in this post how often you take a tiny bit of what happened, and proceed to add an enormous amount of your own story to it.

What happened: MacPhail offered 7 years 140+ million.

What you added: MacPhail had an "expectation" that Tex would accept his offer ahead of other more lucrative offers with more competitive teams.

No where did MacPhail say that he expected Tex to sign here when all of the final offers were made given their varying amounts. In fact it's quite preposterous for anyone to expect a player to choose less money, less years, and a worse team over the alternative. You would have to be a complete idiot to expect that, but it's implicit in your assumption.

It was reported all along the Orioles were hoping Tex would take a hometown discount to sign. The fact that MacPhail never upped our offer shows that he didn't understand the market for Teixiera. And the fact that he kept saying they were in it even though they never raised the offer just goes to prove that. You can't be in the race with the lowest offer, so it was foolish to try to convince the fans that the Orioles were still in it all that time.

What happened: MacPhail made an offer and Tex did not sign here.

What you added: MacPhail thought his offer was good enough to get Tex and he does not know how to properly pursue free agents.

Do you think that MacPhail is unaware of the fact that if he offered more money it would have increased his chances of landing Tex? Is that ever not the case? Can you possibly imagine a GM not understanding this?

Why did he never raise the offer?

Do you have any evidence that the manner in which he communicated with Tex and his agent was ineffective compared to how other teams communicated with Tex? Do you have any evidence that the way in which he pursued Tex played a larger role in Tex not signing here than size of contract, length of contract, and competitiveness of the major league team?

Again, MacPhail had a threshold he was not willing to cross. We can argue about whether that threshold is legitimate or not given the state of our team in terms of talent and finances, but then we're dealing with a lot of stuff we as fans have no access to and know nothing about.

The notion that MacPhail does not understand that free agents look for the biggest contract is completely absurd and without basis.

Again, why did he never raise the offer? And why has he never landed a premium FA?

What happened: Other teams offered more money than the Orioles.

What you added: MacPhail thought that the true value of Tex was lower than what other teams saw his true value to be. MacPhail thought that the Orioles needed Tex but lacked the will to do whatever it took to get Tex.

There is no evidence that MacPhail thought Tex offered less value than other teams. There is no evidence that MacPhail thought the Orioles needed Tex. These were things you assumed and then you held MacPhail responsible for your assumptions that he did not share.

I could bring in the argument about money meaning different things for different organizations given their budget but you've seen that before. What I would like to point out is that you're engaging in an argument with your made up beliefs about MacPhail and not with MacPhail's actual beliefs.

Furthermore, the fact that you're holding MacPhail responsible for things he never said is dishonest.

MacPhail said all along after he made the offer that was lower than all the other teams that he thought they were still in it despite never raising his offer.

Had he raised the offer to at least 8/160 after the other teams had their offers known, then you might have a point. But how can you say you are still in the race when you have the lowest offer on the table?

It just shows that he underestimated how aggressive he'd have to be in his pursuit of Teixeira IMO. He thought Tex wanted to play for the Orioles bad enough so he'd be willing to take a discount when it was pretty obvious with him being a Boras client he was going to go where he could either win or was paid the most money, and the Orioles offered neither of those two things.

MacPhail has also said he won't get into a bidding war with "the big boys." And Teixeira is just a perfect example IMO.

[cmcgarvey]

Goodness, I tried catching up on this thread but just felt like repeatedly bashing my head against my desk instead. I mean, that's what reading it felt like.

And if I ruled the world TonySoprano would be in charge of the JFK investigation, Roswell and finding Hoffa's body.

Yeah...

Can someone please remind me that I haven't Quantum Leaped back a year to stop Teixeira from signing with the Yankees?

(Trust me, this would be a lot funnier if my user name was Sam Beckett.)

[TonySoprano]

Goodness, I tried catching up on this thread but just felt like repeatedly bashing my head against my desk instead. I mean, that's what reading it felt like.

And if I ruled the world TonySoprano would be in charge of the JFK investigation, Roswell and finding Hoffa's body.

If you ruled the world, I'd get on one of those Roswell ships and find a better place. Fuhgeddaboudit.

Psst Hoffa and JFK are connected. It's a mystery wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma