Friedgen to return for 10th season per Baltimore Sun

[BaltimoreTerp]

He certainly did coach the team well, no doubt. But, there are lots of guys who can coach well. That's only part of the job though. Bringing in talent is a huge part...and it's part that he isn't any good at.

Except apparently for Scott McBrien. And those NFL draft picks.

[Dr. FLK]

You mean the guy that transferred into Maryland under Friedgen?

Yeah. The guy who hated Rich Rod and transferred to MD to be close to home.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Yeah. The guy who hated Rich Rod and transferred to MD to be close to home.

He could have transferred elsewhere.

[Dr. FLK]

He could have transferred elsewhere.

He could, your right. McBrien wanted to come to MD because he's from Rockville. So, I guess Fridge gets kudos for not telling him 'No'. I'm not sure what your point is. I know you enjoy trying to point out all of my blatant fallacies, but are you honestly trying to suggest that Fridge has been successful bringing in talent? If he has, then he's terrible at coaching said talent. And, if he's a good coach, then he's bad at judging talent. He clearly isn't both.

[Mackus]

He could, your right. McBrien wanted to come to MD because he's from Rockville. So, I guess Fridge gets kudos for not telling him 'No'. I'm not sure what your point is. I know you enjoy trying to point out all of my blatant fallacies, but are you honestly trying to suggest that Fridge has been successful bringing in talent? If he has, then he's terrible at coaching said talent. And, if he's a good coach, then he's bad at judging talent. He clearly isn't both.

The point is you are trying to take away the credit for some of the good things he's done, and that's disingenuous.

The great things he did in his first few years don't outweigh the inability to build on that early success, but when your argument includes making up BS reasons like "he won with Vanderlinden's recruits" and "McBrien fell into his lap" it makes your overall argument seem more petty than based on the reality of the situation. There is no need to denigrate his previous success to make a successful case for why he should be let go now. Basically you are saying something like "Bobby Bowden needs to be fired now, and part of the reason is because his national championships were only because his school was in Florida and all the kids wanted to go there, not because he's good at bringing in those kids".

[Dr. FLK]

The point is you are trying to take away the credit for some of the good things he's done, and that's disingenuous.

The great things he did in his first few years don't outweigh the inability to build on that early success, but when your argument includes making up BS reasons like "he won with Vanderlinden's recruits" and "McBrien fell into his lap" it makes your overall argument seem more petty than based on the reality of the situation. There is no need to denigrate his previous success to make a successful case for why he should be let go now. Basically you are saying something like "Bobby Bowden needs to be fired now, and part of the reason is because his national championships were only because his school was in Florida and all the kids wanted to go there, not because he's good at bringing in those kids".

Yeah...compare decades of success to 3 seasons near the top of the ACC. Solid. Fridge lost almost as many games THIS SEASON as Bowden lost in the 90s. I think you're comparing apples with donuts...you can figure out which coach is which.

I'm not taking away from his early season success. He still had to win. I've never said I don't think he can coach, and I'm not denigrating his early success. I think he can do that again if he can find a way to bring in better players. But, I don't have faith that he can bring in talent. I do think he got lucky with McBrien coming here. I don't think that takes away from his coaching abilities. But, being a DI Football coach is about a lot more than on-the-field coaching.

[Mackus]

Yeah...compare decades of success to 3 seasons near the top of the ACC. Solid. Fridge lost almost as many games THIS SEASON as Bowden lost in the 90s.

Its an exaggeration, but obviously the point remains.

There is no need to make up crappy reasons that cheapen his early success. Just point to his recent failings as to why he should be let go and make a case for why you think he won't turn it around. That's all I've been saying.

[Birds of B'more]

Yeah...compare decades of success to 3 seasons near the top of the ACC. Solid. Fridge lost almost as many games THIS SEASON as Bowden lost in the 90s.

Its an exaggeration, but obviously the point remains.

There is no need to make up crappy reasons that cheapen his early success. Just point to his recent failings as to why he should be let go and make a case for why you think he won't turn it around. That's all I've been saying.

It's not that much of an exaggeration.

Maryland losses in 2009 - 10

FSU losses from 1990-99 - 13

[Mackus]

It's not that much of an exaggeration.

Maryland losses in 2009 - 10

FSU losses from 1990-99 - 13

You've got my point backwards. Comparing Fridge to Bowden is an exaggeration. But trying to cheapen either guy's past success to make a case for why they should be gone now is simply a dumb argument.

[Dr. FLK]

You've got my point backwards. Comparing Fridge to Bowden is an exaggeration. But trying to cheapen either guy's past success to make a case for why they should be gone now is simply a dumb argument.

And the point I'm trying to make is that I'm not cheapening his past. Who recruited the majority of the guys on his first few teams? He certainly did coach the teams well, I've never said anything different.

[Mackus]

And the point I'm trying to make is that I'm not cheapening his past. Who recruited the majority of the guys on his first few teams? He certainly did coach the teams well, I've never said anything different.

You're wrong if you think it matters who recruited those guys. It doesn't. Coaching is much more important than recruiting in college football. Recruiting is still very important, but a good recruiter who can coach is better than a great one who can't. Fridge the coach turned a group of guys that Vanderlinden couldn't even get past 4-5 wins with into a set of 9-10 win teams.

Fridge isn't a great coach, IMO, and obviously he's probably not even a good recruiter. But he gets every ounce of credit for the success in his early years. If you even bring up that some of the players weren't recruited by him its a blatant attempt to take away the credit for the early success. Making bad arguments doesn't make your case stronger, it just makes it look petty and personal. Stick to the real reasons to fire Fridge, that he has not been able to keep the program at the higher level that he brought us to, that recruiting hasn't been very good in recent years and perhaps even downright bad, and that the program is coming off of one of its worst, most hopeless seasons ever.

Put it this way, if they had fired Fridge and brought someone like Billick in to be the coach, and we win 8 games next year, nobody would be going around trying to limit the praise we heap on Billick because he only "won with Fridge's recruits".

[Dr. FLK]

You're wrong if you think it matters who recruited those guys. It doesn't. Coaching is much more important than recruiting in college football. Recruiting is still very important, but a good recruiter who can coach is better than a great one who can't. Fridge the coach turned a group of guys that Vanderlinden couldn't even get past 4-5 wins with into a set of 9-10 win teams.

I'm wrong because I think it matters if a coach can recruit? It obviously take more than recruiting. Coaching is obviously important. I guess some of us would like a coach who can do both. I never said I'd rather have a guy who can recruit but not coach.

[Mackus]

I'm wrong because I think it matters if a coach can recruit? It obviously take more than recruiting. Coaching is obviously important. I guess some of us would like a coach who can do both. I never said I'd rather have a guy who can recruit but not coach.

Now you're just not understanding what I'm saying. I very clearly did not say it doesn't matter if a coach can recruit. I said it doesn't matter who recruited the guys that Fridge won with when he had wild success his first 3 years.

I said you're wrong if you think it matters who recruited the guys that were there when Friedgen led the team to about 30 wins in 3 seasons. It doesn't. Fridge coached them, and coaching that talent you have to success is a much more difficult task than getting talent into the program. My entire point is that its BS of you to be taking away credit from Fridge for his early success. It doesn't matter if Vanderlinden brought in some of those players, or if McBrien was a transfer. All that matters is that Fridge won with what was there. He gets every ounce of credit and every win he got in those early years are every bit as much his as the wins he's got the last few years.

Its very important to be able to get good talent in, and nobody will ever say differently. Ultimately it doesn't matter if you're winning with overlooked talent or if you're winning with great talent. All that matters is the win totals. Fridge has underperformed expectations over the last 5 years or so in the win column, which is why he should go (if money wasn't a major issue).

[Dr. FLK]

Now you're just not understanding what I'm saying. I very clearly did not say it doesn't matter if a coach can recruit. I said it doesn't matter who recruited the guys that Fridge won with when he had wild success his first 3 years.

I said you're wrong if you think it matters who recruited the guys that were there when Friedgen led the team to about 30 wins in 3 seasons. It doesn't. Fridge coached them, and coaching that talent you have to success is a much more difficult task than getting talent into the program. My entire point is that its BS of you to be taking away credit from Fridge for his early success. It doesn't matter if Vanderlinden brought in some of those players, or if McBrien was a transfer. All that matters is that Fridge won with what was there. He gets every ounce of credit and every win he got in those early years are every bit as much his as the wins he's got the last few years.

Its very important to be able to get good talent in, and nobody will ever say differently. Ultimately it doesn't matter if you're winning with overlooked talent or if you're winning with great talent. All that matters is the win totals. Fridge has underperformed expectations over the last 5 years or so in the win column, which is why he should go (if money wasn't a major issue).

I don't think I ever said that it did. My criticism of Fridge has never had anything to do with his coaching. I think he did a great job with those kids. I just wish he could bring in more kids like them.

[Mackus]

I don't think I ever said that it did. My criticism of Fridge has never had anything to do with his coaching. I think he did a great job with those kids. I just wish he could bring in more kids like them.

I thought you had said something along those lines, trying to diminish his accomplishments because either "McBrien fell in his lap" or that "he coached Vanderlinden's kids". Either argument, to me, is a crappy argument, just trying to strengthen the point that he should be fired now (which needs little strengthening) with unfair criticisms attempting to discredit his past success.

If it wasn't you making those arguments I apologize. My opinion of those types of arguments remains unchanged, though.

I haven't been trying to make a case that we should be keeping Fridge. Just trying to not let people get away with diminishing the impact he had at the University in his first few seasons. He did a terrific job and completely changed the expectation level of what Maryland fans think the program should be. Even if he can't keep up as that loftier tier himself, he's the reason that we now think, deservedly so IMO, that we should be up in that tier consistently. And that is a great thing and a difficult task to achieve.