Friedgen to return for 10th season per Baltimore Sun

[Dr. FLK]

I thought you had said something along those lines, trying to diminish his accomplishments because either "McBrien fell in his lap" or that "he coached Vanderlinden's kids". Either argument, to me, is a crappy argument, just trying to strengthen the point that he should be fired now (which needs little strengthening) with unfair criticisms attempting to discredit his past success.

If it wasn't you making those arguments I apologize. My opinion of those types of arguments remains unchanged, though.

I said McBrien fell into his lap, which I think is pretty true. I think he did a great job coaching those teams. It seems like you're taking my feeling that he isn't good at bringing in talent as me somehow saying he didn't coach his early teams well. That's not the case at all. It's pretty much fact that he didn't bring in many of those kids. And, McBrien did come here because he wanted to be close to home. So, I'm not sure what part of that you disagree with. I think he an coach, I don't think he can recruit. That's all there is to it.

[RShack]

I said you're wrong if you think it matters who recruited the guys that were there when Friedgen led the team to about 30 wins in 3 seasons. It doesn't. Fridge coached them, and coaching that talent you have to success is a much more difficult task than getting talent into the program.

Well, that's a very iffy thing to assert. I don't know why you're acting like that's a fact. I know of zero basis for saying that. In college football, recruiting is huge. Lots of guys can show players what they're supposed to do to play right, but not that many can talk the best HS players into picking their school.

My theory is that obese guys are lousy at closing the deal with top recruits: They show up at the kid's house to schmooze Mom and Dad, and when they plop their 400lbs all over Mom's sofa (they can't fit in the chair), it fails to make a good impression. The Fridge did great when somebody else got him the talent, both at GT and at MD, but when he became the symbol of leadership for the school's program, the quality of the talent got worse. Same basic thing with Charlie Weis at ND. Both those guys can coach, and both of them succeeded at that with college players that their predecessors left there for them. Their success dried up when it was up to them to keep enough of the right talent coming in.

[Mackus]

Well, that's a very iffy thing to assert. I don't know why you're acting like that's a fact. I know of zero basis for saying that. In college football, recruiting is huge. Lots of guys can show players what they're supposed to do to play right, but not that many can talk the best HS players into picking their school.

My theory is that obese guys are lousy at closing the deal with top recruits: They show up at the kid's house to schmooze Mom and Dad, and when they plop their 400lbs all over Mom's sofa (they can't fit in the chair), it fails to make a good impression. The Fridge did great when somebody else got him the talent, both at GT and at MD, but when he became the symbol of leadership for the school's program, the quality of the talent got worse. Same basic thing with Charlie Weis at ND. Both those guys can coach, and both of them succeeded at that with college players that their predecessors left there for them. Their success dried up when it was up to them to keep enough of the right talent coming in.

In other sports getting talent is the biggest thing. There isn't a whole lot good coaching can make a difference about in baseball, for example. But football is by far the most coaching-intensive sport. Scheme is everything, and great coaches can overcome being less physically gifted than other teams with good gameplans.

I'm not saying you don't need the best players you can get, but I'm saying great coaching can mask shortcomings in talent levels between different programs.

I think you're "fat guys can't recruit" thesis is ridiculous. Plenty of huge coaches have done great over the years in various sports.

[Dr. FLK]

I think you're "fat guys can't recruit" thesis is ridiculous. Plenty of huge coaches have done great over the years in various sports.

Who? I'm not doubting you, I just can't think of any. Weiss actually recruited pretty darn well, but couldn't get guys on defense. Did Mangino recruit well at KU?

[Mackus]

Who? I'm not doubting you, I just can't think of any. Weiss actually recruited pretty darn well, but couldn't get guys on defense. Did Mangino recruit well at KU?

Phil Fullmer did quite well at Tennessee for a long time.

The one that stands out the most to me is Rick Majerus at Utah. Its basketball, but its still recruiting.

Pointing out 2 cases doesn't make the case any moreso than pointing out a couple bad cases disproves it, but I just think the overall correlation of a guy being fat and struggling at recruiting is a classic example of a lack of understanding between correlation and causation. Its a classic logical fallacy, really.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Here's my problem with the "recruiting is more important than coaching" argument: Ron Zook.

Ron Zook is a guy who by all accounts is an awesome recruiter. The whole selling-snow-to-an-Eskimo thing. He brought in most of the recruits on the 2006 Gators championship team. However, by that point he was in Illinois doing the same thing, because he wasn't a very good coach. Urban Meyer is a great coach AND recruiter, so he can still get those players but can also win games.

This actually goes to the present argument, too, since one of the main arguments is that Vanderlinden recruited the talent Friedgen used to win early on. Well, Vanderlinden brought in recruits to Northwestern as an assistant, and then he brought in recruits to Maryland, but he couldn't coach them.

So the question is, is it better to have someone in charge who can recruit but not coach, or coach but not recruit? Before someone offers a blinding flash of the obvious, it's best to find someone who can do both, but how many of those guys 1) are there and 2) are looking to come to Maryland?

[Dr. FLK]

Phil Fullmer did quite well at Tennessee for a long time.

The one that stands out the most to me is Rick Majerus at Utah. Its basketball, but its still recruiting.

Pointing out 2 cases doesn't make the case any moreso than pointing out a couple bad cases disproves it, but I just think the overall correlation of a guy being fat and struggling at recruiting is a classic example of a lack of understanding between correlation and causation. Its a classic logical fallacy, really.

I wasn't asking you to make the point...just curious. Fat guys are funny.

[RShack]

Phil Fullmer did quite well at Tennessee for a long time.

Being beefy and being grossly obese are not the same thing.

I have no doubt that Fullmer could walk a mile at a brisk clip, and I bet neither the Fridge nor Weis could... not running, not jogging, just walking without huffing and puffing...

ps: I like Ralph, I will always like Ralph. I had more fun watching his GT offense than I can tell you. You never knew what they hell they were gonna do...

[Dr. FLK]

Here's my problem with the "recruiting is more important than coaching" argument: Ron Zook.

Ron Zook is a guy who by all accounts is an awesome recruiter. The whole selling-snow-to-an-Eskimo thing. He brought in most of the recruits on the 2006 Gators championship team. However, by that point he was in Illinois doing the same thing, because he wasn't a very good coach. Urban Meyer is a great coach AND recruiter, so he can still get those players but can also win games.

This actually goes to the present argument, too, since one of the main arguments is that Vanderlinden recruited the talent Friedgen used to win early on. Well, Vanderlinden brought in recruits to Northwestern as an assistant, and then he brought in recruits to Maryland, but he couldn't coach them.

So the question is, is it better to have someone in charge who can recruit but not coach, or coach but not recruit? Before someone offers a blinding flash of the obvious, it's best to find someone who can do both, but how many of those guys 1) are there and 2) are looking to come to Maryland?

Why can't we want someone who can do both? It's like suggesting you can only have an attractive girl or a nice one...

[BaltimoreTerp]

Why can't we want someone who can do both? It's like suggesting you can only have an attractive girl or a nice one...

So you DIDN'T read all the way to the end? :laughlol:

[Dr. FLK]

So you DIDN'T read all the way to the end? :laughlol:

Sure didn't...I gave up after 'So the question is, is it better to have someone in charge who can recruit but not coach, or coach but not recruit?", and I assumed it was more of you being contrary just to be contrary.

[Tony-OH]

I like Ralph Friedgen. I think he a true Terp, he tries his best, he loves what he does, and he really tries to do what's best for his players. I think at one time he was a pretty good offensive mind who had a creative offensive style that worked well.

Unfortunately, I think the administrative part of being a top college coach is what he's just not very good at. For whatever reason, he was not able to parlay those Bowl appearences into better players and his inability to recruit a top level quarterback is striking.

Unlike Gary Williams, I don't think he rested on his laurels and expected players to just fawn all over themeselves to come to College Park, I just don't think for whategver reason that he's very good at convincing top players that he can make them better and that he will prepare them for the next level (which is what most top level guys want to hear).

He gave up play calling a ways back the Terps have basically stink since then. Maybe it's the play calling or maybe it's the lack of talent, but for whatever reason the team ended up starting walkons on the O-line and that's ridiculous. When Turner is your best option at QB, it speaks volumes about the competition in my mind as well.

Ok, so Friedgen is coming back. Really, why not? The team was not going to win next year anyways and it's doubtful a top coach is going to come into this situation unless Yow opens up the pocketbooks.

Unfortunately, it means more mediocrity at College Park and more empty seats and unfilled sky boxes. Friedgen will be gone at the end of his contract and I can't imagine Franklin getting the job. So we're two years away, maybe one if Yow is willing to bite the bullet on one year, of the possibility of a new beginning for Terps football.

[allstar1579]

Yeah it just seems like he's good at getting RB, TE, WR, and Defensive players, but has no clue how to get a QB. His OLine before this one has been solid with quite a few players in the NFL now, but this one is just a disaster.

[RShack]

I like Ralph Friedgen. I think he a true Terp, he tries his best, he loves what he does, and he really tries to do what's best for his players. I think at one time he was a pretty good offensive mind who had a creative offensive style that worked well.

Unfortunately, I think the administrative part of being a top college coach is what he's just not very good at. For whatever reason, he was not able to parlay those Bowl appearences into better players and his inability to recruit a top level quarterback is striking.

Unlike Gary Williams, I don't think he rested on his laurels and expected players to just fawn all over themeselves to come to College Park, I just don't think for whategver reason that he's very good at convincing top players that he can make them better and that he will prepare them for the next level (which is what most top level guys want to hear).

He gave up play calling a ways back the Terps have basically stink since then. Maybe it's the play calling or maybe it's the lack of talent, but for whatever reason the team ended up starting walkons on the O-line and that's ridiculous. When Turner is your best option at QB, it speaks volumes about the competition in my mind as well.

A perfect example of the Peter Principle: as long as guys are very good at what they do, they get promoted... until they've been promoted high enough that they land a job that they're not good at... at which point they stop getting promoted and stay in the job that they're not good at...

[Mackus]

A perfect example of the Peter Principle: as long as guys are very good at what they do, they get promoted... until they've been promoted high enough that they land a job that they're not good at... at which point they stop getting promoted and stay in the job that they're not good at...

Except that doesn't really work for high-level sports. If you're not good at a job, you lose it and go back down a level.

That's why Cam Cameron is the Ravens offensive coordinator, and countless other similar examples. Fridge would be sharing a similar fate right now, but the money issues make it unrealistic to fire him and be able to bring in a suitable coach at this time.