Chris Tillman: To trade or not to trade?

[Old#5fan]

This, for the love of God, this. I mean Trea, the kid is 22 years old and has a huge upside and I know you already have him as a bust but maybe, just maybe, he could learn and grow. Oh and by the way, MacPhail loves him. He held up the Jones/Bedard deal specifically to get him. He isn't going anywhere!!

Not that I would advocate trading either one but if I was forced to trade one of the pair, I would trade Matusz before I would Tillman. Tillman has about the nastiest curve ball I have seen in an Oriole uniform since Gregg Olson, Mike Mussina, Mike Boddicker, or Jim Palmer. No other Orioles pitcher has that kind of hook in his arsenal. Not even close. Learning to keep his fastball down should not be that difficult once he gains major league experience (at least in my estimation).

[Sports Guy]

Dude when in the hell has Penn ever shown anything close to what Tillman has? When was Hayden ever considered the prospect that Tillman was???? That is just as rediculous as this thread!

Penn was an excellent prospect that put up great numbers at young ages in the upper minors.

They are actually kind of similar, at least in terms of stuff, size, etc...

The difference is health(at least thus far) and what is going on between the ears.

If Tillman's ERA was more like his FIP, there would be a lot more doubt I think and a lot more Tillman/Penn/Olson comps.

[Sports Guy]

Not that I would advocate trading either one but if I was forced to trade one of the pair, I would trade Matusz before I would Tillman. Tillman has about the nastiest curve ball I have seen in an Oriole uniform since Gregg Olson, Mike Mussina, Mike Boddicker, or Jim Palmer. No other Orioles pitcher has that kind of hook in his arsenal. Not even close. Learning to keep his fastball down should not be that difficult once he gains major league experience (at least in my estimation).

Yet another reason we are glad you aren't in charge...Matusz is heads and shoulders above Tillman right now...There probably isn't a person in baseball, whether it be a scout or FO person who would trade Matusz before Tillman.

[JTrea81]

Dude when in the hell has Penn ever shown anything close to what Tillman has? When was Hayden ever considered the prospect that Tillman was???? That is just as rediculous as this thread!

Penn was highly rated when he was 19-20. He was Baltimore's #2 prospect in 2005 and #3 in 2006.

[Hooded Viper]

Penn was an excellent prospect that put up great numbers at young ages in the upper minors.

They are actually kind of similar, at least in terms of stuff, size, etc...

The difference is health(at least thus far) and what is going on between the ears.

If Tillman's ERA was more like his FIP, there would be a lot more doubt I think and a lot more Tillman/Penn/Olson comps.

SG, there is a thing called the eyeball test, that goes beyond the almighty statistics. Both Penn and Olson pitched scared, afraid of contact and neither of them had the accuracy that Tillman showed last year or the stones!! Those two aren't even in the same stratosphere in terms of players that Tillman is, imo.

[andrewrickli]

Dude when in the hell has Penn ever shown anything close to what Tillman has? When was Hayden ever considered the prospect that Tillman was???? That is just as rediculous as this thread!

The Orioles traded former top pitching prospect Hayden Penn to the Florida Marlins on Wednesday for utility infielder Robert Andino

This is from From Camden Chat. He was a former top pitching prospect like Tillman.

Tillman Minor League carrer lines in wins losses and ERA:

Minor League Totals - 29 24 3.80

Hayden Penn's Minor League carrer line in wins losses and ERA:

Minor League Totals - 34 32 3.90

Hooded viper that ERA is very much the same. Both were top pitching prospects...I ahve no idea what you are talking about

*Stats from thebaseballcube.com

[Hooded Viper]

Penn was highly rated when he was 19-20. He was Baltimore's #2 prospect in 2005 and #3 in 2006.

And what was our farm system ranked back then. We had how many top 50 players back then?????

[Old#5fan]

Yet another reason we are glad you aren't in charge...Matusz is heads and shoulders above Tillman right now...There probably isn't a person in baseball, whether it be a scout or FO person who would trade Matusz before Tillman.

Says who? I just saw where you were comparing Hayden Penn to Tillman. If you truly believe those two ever resembled each other you have about as much talent recognizing ability as the late Syd Thrift on his worst day. So because you say Matusz is head and shoulders above Tillman we are supposed to believe it? That is hilarious!!

:laughlol::rofl::mwahaha:

FYI, Penn never in a million years had a curve ball to buckle anyone's knees the way Tillman's does. You have no clue whatsover if you think those two were ever comparable other than possibly using some sort of stats in the minors. They were and are totally different style pitchers all together.

You should stick with statistical arguments as you are so far off base in your scouting remarks as to render your credibility in that area as nil.

[andrewrickli]

Haha Tillman is just about the same as Penn was

[andrewrickli]

neither of them had the accuracy that Tillman showed last year

Seriously Tillman didn't have that much accuracy, he was always up in the zone and this what many scouts see as his down fall. He could get by with it in the Minors, but in the Bigs, guys will take him Yard if he leaves that fastball up in the zone

[Hooded Viper]

This is from From Camden Chat. He was a former top pitching prospect like Tillman.

Tillman Minor League carrer lines in wins losses and ERA:

Minor League Totals - 29 24 3.80

Hayden Penn's Minor League carrer line in wins losses and ERA:

Minor League Totals - 34 32 3.90

Hooded viper that ERA is very much the same. Both were top pitching prospects...I ahve no idea what you are talking about

*Stats from thebaseballcube.com

Kid, did you actually watch Penn pitch in the Majors?? Did you watch Tillman pitch? It was night and freakin day. Don't throw useless numbers from the minors at me when all I needed to see were the games they both played at the only level that matters. Hayden pitched like a scared rabbit and thus got us Robert Andino and Tillman is considered one our building blocks of the future.

[Sports Guy]

SG, there is a thing called the eyeball test, that goes beyond the almighty statistics. Both Penn and Olson pitched scared, afraid of contact and neither of them had the accuracy that Tillman showed last year or the stones!! Those two aren't even in the same stratosphere in terms of players that Tillman is, imo.

I agree...Tillman beats them both "upstairs"...But the way you are dismissing things and acting in this thread is the type of thinking that has caused this team to be so pathetic and have such poor luck with pitching over the years.

[skins2357]

NO NO NO! We have enough depth to get MCab without Tillman IMO. Arietta/Reimold/Snyder/Britton/Avery....

I think that plus taking his salary would make them think

[andrewrickli]

Says who? I just saw where you were comparing Hayden Penn to Tillman. If you truly believe those two ever resembled each other you have about as much talent reconizing ability as the late Syd Thrift on his worst day.

FYI, Penn never in a million years had a curve ball to buckle anyone's knees the way Tillman's does. You have no clue whatsover if you think those two were ever comparable other than possibly using some sort of stats in the minors. They were and are totally different style pitchers all together.

It wasn't just him that was comparing him to Tillman, read all the other comments...and look at both of their Minor League carrer #s. They are virtually the same!

[crissfan172]

Penn was highly rated when he was 19-20. He was Baltimore's #2 prospect in 2005 and #3 in 2006.

There's a difference between Baltimore #2 prospect, and a top 20 prospect in baseball. Plus, Penn never had the kind of stuff Tillman does.